What's the Benefit of 45/45/10 mix over just alox?

[poppy42]

I've only been casting for a relatively short period of time (at least compared most on this forum anyway) and only for 9mm Luger and 9x18. I've been tumble lubing using LLA for lube. After reading through multiple pages on bullet lube I have a couple questions maybe y'all can help with. As my topic reads what are the benefits of a 45/45/10 mix over straight LLA? My second question is more caliber specific. The mold I'm using for 9x19 (Makarov) is a Lee 95 grn RN it dose not have micro lube grooves just the standard single lube grove. As I stated above I tumble lube with straight LLA. I don't have a lube sizer nor the funding to buy one. My question is, am I ok tumble lubing my Makarov bullets? Or should I be pan lubing. If I should be pan lubing what would you suggest I use? I am not experiencing any leading or accuracy problems so far as I can tell. If it ain't broke I don't know if it needs fixen.
As usual I thank everyone for there help and advice in advance. As I pay homage to all you great boolet casting gods! I am in awe of all your knowledge and wisdom!

[GhostHawk]

Yes, I have been using BLL on ALL of my bullets, both tl and conventional with no issues.

As I am not a user of 45/45/10 I can not speak definitively to those questions.
But for me, why I put JPW in my BLL, Carnuba. 2-3 % is an awesome bore conditioner. Carnuba makes a hard shell, so it helps to "seal" the alox, prevent sticky bullets. Those 2 attributes combine to make lube that IMO works better, leaves bores mirror bright, shiny, awesome. And bullets that go where they are supposed to go.

The key IMO is in getting the proportions right, and keeping the coat on the bullets light uniform and even.

[poppy42]

Thanks for the reply gosthawk. I can certainly understand sticky bullets being a pain. Even after it dries LLA seems to get everywhere! It reminds me of roof tar! There's a reason they call that stuff bull! My accuracy has been ok. Like I said I only load pistol and I don't shoot competitively. I don't notice a difference between factory fmj, high dollar self defense ammunition, and my cast handloads. Don't get me wrong It's not that I'm some casual shooter (I hit the range on average twice a week with 2 to three guns and usually throw about 200 rounds a gun down range). I just haven't seen a noticeable difference in accuracy. As far as bore conditioning I've been using Frog Lube on all my weapons for a while. I don't know if you are familiar with it but it's a gun cleaning, lubing, and conditioning products/system. The first couple time I used it I was not impressed at all but I paid for this stuff so I figured I'd give it a chance. I gotta tell ya follow the directions to the letter and after about 4 or 5 cleanings/ conditionings I find my self not using much more than some qtips, a microfiber rag, and maybe a nylon brush once in a while to keep my bore spotless. But that's a whole different topic " gun cleaning ". Hopefully I'll get some more input on this topic before I decide to try a mix. Gosthawk any thoughts on tumble lubing bullet that have the the typical bullet lube grove as opposed to the Lee micro groves?
Thanks again for your input

[Hick]

To your question on tumble lube and different bullets (some with micro grooves and some with larger lube grooves). I start out with Ben's liquid lube for all my cast bullets, then test. For my 223 Remington (Lyman 225-646 bullet) I had no leading out the maximum velocity for accuracy using only BLL-- so I don;t use any other lube. For my 30-30 and 32WS, I start to see leading at about 50 rounds, which isn't really bad, but still inconvenient, so I start adding some lube in the grooves. For my 38 Special, no leading with BLL alone, so I stop there. The bottom line is that there is no set rule. Play with the different lubes and see which one your firearm likes. Personally, I use BLL on all my bullets, even if I plan to add lube to the grooves. I do this because it coats the entire bullet-- even where the other lube doesn't reach. This may not be necessary but I think it helps cut down on leading.

[Love Life]

To your question on tumble lube and different bullets (some with micro grooves and some with larger lube grooves). I start out with Ben's liquid lube for all my cast bullets, then test. For my 223 Remington (Lyman 225-646 bullet) I had no leading out the maximum velocity for accuracy using only BLL-- so I don;t use any other lube. For my 30-30 and 32WS, I start to see leading at about 50 rounds, which isn't really bad, but still inconvenient, so I start adding some lube in the grooves. For my 38 Special, no leading with BLL alone, so I stop there. The bottom line is that there is no set rule. Play with the different lubes and see which one your firearm likes. Personally, I use BLL on all my bullets, even if I plan to add lube to the grooves. I do this because it coats the entire bullet-- even where the other lube doesn't reach. This may not be necessary but I think it helps cut down on leading.

Bill actually dries, lol.


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[GhostHawk]

Hick nailed it IMO.

Like him I had a few situations after I was trying everything with BLL where I either saw light leading, or was simply short of confidence. Like 7.62x54r for the pair of Mosin's I have. They shoot, but not accurately, they had a real tendency towards leading. So I filled the grooves with Ben's Red, and put a coat of BLL over the top.

Wow, clean bores, groups a little better. No harm no foul here.

Then I started seeing guys talking BLL mentioning things like 3 light coats is better than 1 heavy one.

So I tried it in my worst offender, the old SKS in 7.62x39. My first attempt with cast boolits in this old girl she leaded up the bore to where it had no rifling. Took 4 days to get it clean.

3 coats BLL, bullets that were 2 thousandths bigger than before. Wow sparkling bore, SHINY! And accuracy! I was hitting quarter sized chunks of broken clay pigeon at 50 y offhand and hitting it every time.

So here goes popper.

A Matters not which recipe, they close enough same rules apply.

B 3 light coats is better than one heavy. Think about this one, any variance in weight on the OUTSIDE of the bullet is going to have the greatest effect. One side heavier will induce a wobble, there goes your accuracy. So keep it thin, keep how much in any given application small, add a coat, swirl, let it sit with the top off for 5 min. Repeat.

Your filling in the holes and polishing off the high spots.

C Grooves, lube vs Micro, vs? Matters not to BLL. The coating extends the length of the bullet. It is all there available to be used.

I have put on BLL until there are rings of it in the lube grooves. But I don't see that much as necessary.

D If you want them to shine, polish their noses.
The last step, the last thing I do with loaded rounds that I really need to perform well.
Is after the bullet is crimped in place. I take an old towel, put 3-4 drops of BLL into one spot. Stick the nose of the bullet on that spot, close the towel around it and twist.

Noses come out bright, shiny, with an incredibly THIN coat of BLL on them.

Partly this is I suspect confidence. If you have it, you shoot better. You trust your ammo.

Partly it is cosmetic. Not many casters at the range I go to, I like my stuff to look good. To leave a good impression. Partly it is ritual. You gots to hold your mouth right.

This is what I did that time I put 3 in one hole at 100 yards. Which translates into "this is what I do and who I am, because it worked, once"

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The benefit is, 45-45-10 will dry in a short amount of time and NOT stay sticky like LLA typically does. If you can develop a technique to apply LLA, so it goes on thinly and get it to dry and not stay tacky, then there really isn't a benefit. 45-45-10 was developed just for that reason.

Using LLA and/or 45-45-10 on traditional lube groove boolits (non-TL groove) works just fine, In fact myself as well as other members have reported other problems with Lee's TL designs, especially in 9mm. I also use Lee's 95 grn RN traditional lube groove boolit for 9mm Mak and coat it twice with 45-45-10 and loaded up with Powerpistol ...it works great.