Help With Bullet Barrel Decision

[jjarrell]

I guess this is directed mostly at IdahoRon, 54bore or the like. As they look to be very experienced at this from what I've seen here. I'm thinking of having another barrel built. It would be strictly a bullet shooter. I have a .50 cal T/C Hawken that I think I'm going to have another barrel built for. I was thinking .45 or .50 caliber octagon to round with a wedding band, and a nice filled inlay on the flats. 32-36" length. Rifled 1:20" with .450 bore and 004" deep Forsyth rifling for a .458 bullet. As the bottom of the grooves will then measure.458. I will either have Oregon Barrel or Howard Kelly build it. They have both built .54 caliber round ball barrels for me and I couldn't ask for better work. They will both give 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Im leaning towards the .45 caliber with 400-600gr bullets, but haven't ruled out the .50 or even a .54 possibly. I'm not sure if I would paper patch or not, as I know nothing about paper patching. Am I in the right neighborhood with the twist rate and rifling depth? I welcome anyone who has experience with heavy bullet barrels to chime in.

[Saxtonyoung]

When they were still available I used a 45 caliber Green Mountain black powder cartridge barrel that had a 1-18" twist as a muzzleloader barrel, the bullets I used was the Lyman 475 grain 457121 Whitworth sized and lube to .450 . The Barrel proved to be very heavy at 1 1/8" so I sold it off. While the Whitworth bullet was very accurate if I were to do it again I would probably use the The Lyman 451114 Volunteer bullet since it would require less sizing.

Later I had Track of the Wolf make me a barrel for my Renegade with another Green Mountain cartridge barrel this time a 40 caliber with a 1-16" twist. Mountain Mold made me a .401 360 grain Whitworth style bullet that is very accurate. This barrel was left the full 34" long and is used with a TC tang sight when I shoot in the muzzleloader league. When I bought this barrel, Track of the Wolf had 3 of them and since Green Mountain quit making them I purchased all 3. I sold 1 of them off but kept another for a future project, was thinking of a shorter barrel length of 24" or 26" for hunting.

[charlie b]

It depends on what you want it for. Hunting, paper, both? What max ranges do you want? 300, 600, 1000?

If you want the really long ranges you might want a faster twist and 36" barrel. I would go with a .45 but I don't hunt. Some states have a .50cal minimum for hunting. My 'ideal' barrel would be a .45 with 1-20 twist and 32" long. I am happy with 500yd range as a max (most of the time I shoot 100 or 200).

PS I do not have a lot of experience with long range ML, but, have done a little with cartridge guns.

[Saxtonyoung]

Michigan use to have a 45 caliber minimum when it came to hunting deer with a muzzleloader but they dropped that restriction about 3 years ago. Personally I wouldn't use a round ball smaller than 45 for deer but a heavy bullet out of a fast twist barrel appeals to me.

[Good Cheer]

Yo jjarrell,
Whatever the bore diameter is, the bullet needs to be slightly less.
By example, to shoot the regular off the shelf 45 rifle molds I use a .458 bore. That way the off the shelf .457 sizer from Lee lets me use all kinds of molds, long and short, lubed lead or paper patched. With a thin tough paper the patched bullets can be sized in the Lee die pretty easy; patch and then size .457. With a thick paper sizing .454 first and then patching can be done. That may sound like a lot of distorting the bullet but it aint nothing compared to when the powder goes off.

To each his own but my take on the matter is to avoid extremes unless extremes are your goal. In other words, unless you want to shoot a long ways then longer bullets and the fastest twists are counter productive.

[Good Cheer]

Maybe I should restate that...
Unless you want to shoot the longest distances then the longest bullets and fastest twists are counterproductive.

About geometry, looking below, lead will move to fill up a lot of "groove". The rifle is seven groove but six sided bores with round bullets was found to be a great combo in the 1800's. That just blows my mind.

[Saxtonyoung]

Nice thing about fast twist and long bullets is you don't need heavy powder charges to be productive. I was shooting my 45 with the 475 grain bullets and 50 grains of 777 out to 250 yards very accurately with low recoil.

[Good Cheer]

Yep, it's the inertia of the long bullet that makes it expand to fill the rifling. Filling up the corners on a hexagon is moving around a whole lot of lead but by golly it moves.

[54bore]

jjarrell, I would go with a .45 Cal in 1:30" Twist like the Green Mountain LRH Drop in Barrels are, I have 5 Fast twist bullet shooters (3 sidelocks, and 2 TC Scouts, the Scouts are 1:20 Twist) my Fast twist sidelocks are .45, .50, and .54 Cal, out of the 3 my absolute favorite is my .45 Cal, i am shooting that rifle all the way out to 500 Yards with Buffalo Arms .444-400 bullets and 70 Grains of Swiss 3F powder. I recently had a Custom mold made for my .45 Cal and it shoots it REALLY well. Here is a pic of my last Target i shot with my 45, and the Custom bullet

[54bore]

Ron has a Custom .458 Barrel from Green Mountain I believe? If I remember right its like 1:18 twist, REALLY FAST! Lets hear more about that one Ron?

[jjarrell]

I'm still following. Just sitting back taking in the information you're all kind enough to share. Keep it coming.

[Saxtonyoung]

Louis,

That is some nice shooting, have you had a chance to try that bullet past 50 yards yet.

[54bore]

Louis,

That is some nice shooting, have you had a chance to try that bullet past 50 yards yet.

No I haven't yet, But since i plan to deer hunt this year with this combo i will definitely be stretching it out soon. I have no intentions of shooting this particular bullet really long range, my hopes is good flight and accuracy to 200, maybe 300 yards. The BACO bullets will remain my fun long rangers for the 500 yard stuff

[jjarrell]

Louis,

That is some nice shooting, have you had a chance to try that bullet past 50 yards yet.

Most definitely fine shooting. Impressive. I can get that from my .54 round ball barrel at 50yds with it only opening up to 1.5-2" at 100. I haven't tried shooting it any further. I wouldn't even try shooting the ranges you reach with conicals using round balls .

[Good Cheer]

Michigan use to have a 45 caliber minimum when it came to hunting deer with a muzzleloader but they dropped that restriction about 3 years ago. Personally I wouldn't use a round ball smaller than 45 for deer but a heavy bullet out of a fast twist barrel appeals to me.

In Indiana it's .44 minimum. Makes shooting soft cast paper patched or lubed 45-70 boolits a sensible way to go. A body could get a .44 bore made and paper patch .43 diameter pistol boolits but then that'd just be limiting the versatility of the rifle. A .458 bore lets me shoot pistol, revolver and rifle molds and there's no eatin' critters around here that are going to have me under-gunned. Tomato cans tremble at my approach and the moles never show themselves.