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Thread: M-P Miha Mihec mould first shot ..........

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    M-P Miha Mihec mould first shot ..........


    In what is becoming a routine .........(pause for dramatic effect)
    A layman's first experience with a "top of the line" brass mould .
    Thank goodness I won it as a prize .......
    Attachment 197770
    Oh this is a good looking mould and I fully appreciate the learning curve for a brass mould and I'm sure that has an impact on my experience .
    This is the 462-420 HB with plain base plugs . It should cast I would think 462 if not 463........ Both cavities are 4605-461. 420 gr ? Please , the PB only made 406 , even my 457193 @.459 that is supposed to be 405 is 417 gr. It is supposed to drop a 395 gr HB and that manages just 380 .
    So this $120 2C brass nose pour mould with 2 sets of base pins drops under sized and under weight by some 15+ gr .

    I washed in Dawn per my routine for new moulds , all 4 assembled base pins , cavities and faces rinse in hot-hot water and heat dry to the aluminum moulds 350° setting and let cool the first time closed and dry . The second heat run was done with a half drop of lube shared across the sprue plate face after dabbing at the slide rods and a half drop touch on the sprue hinge screw and a little on the mount screws . This time it was run open base down about 40 min up and an hour and a half cool and repeat without the lube twice .
    By all accounts this should have been sufficient .

    Off to the shop !

    Pot , lights and hot plate on . Attach a set of Lee handles . Put the mould on the hot plate get out a good set of Wiss tin snips and cut out the slot in that #10 tomato can for the oven shroud on the hot plate I've put off for 10 yr and set it on the hot plate over the mould .

    My super secret alloy for rifles pours well in everything​ from 225-37 NOE to the 45-405 HB Lee so it was natural to expect it would pour well here . Besides there was 20# in the 4-20 . It tends to run heavy and full figured also .

    I poured about 10 pours and just dumped them back in the pot . Then with good noses visible I poured 30 drops . Not a single keeper .......
    Not being one to give up , I cast a few in in 225 37 just to be sure it wasn't me or alloy , it wasn't​ . Great noses , great bases , the bands refused to fill out .

    The second go was better . I washed it out with brake clean , smeared the sprue face to color with lube and set it on the hot plate while the super alloy melted for removal from the pot . This go around I had a 15# jacketed core metal to pour from . The mould was at 350 and the pot at 725 and off I went .
    Every pour after the 3rd pour was frosted , clean and shiney when dropped and frosted like a gravel road . Well I kept about 75% from the major defect cull and ran some 311291U that drop at 307 and some 301618 that drop at 3015-7 for paper patch work out of the core the 301618 NOE 4C delivered 110 keepers in 35 pours the 311291U 2C delivered 140+ from 90 +- pours .

    I hope in the next run or 2 that this cream d'la cream mould comes around or I figure out it's thing . If not I can honestly say that it is in the top 5 most troublesome disappointing individual moulds I've owned ....... Pity that 3 of the other 4 were Lee and the 4th just wouldn't work in my applications .....
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Harter66, I have more than a few MP molds. Sorry that you are having difficulties. One thing to consider, this mold may be marked a 462-420, but may have been cut to 460 diameter. Some runs are cut to different diameters to account for an individual's rifle or pistol chamber. I don't know offhand about this particular mold but the run may have been offered cut to 462 and then there was a request to cut some to 460. They would all be marked 462. I know this happens with 44 molds and 30 cal molds.

    There is a learning curve to brass molds. You need a lot of eat in the mold. To me it soumds like the lube might be a bit thick. But if it works for you, go for it. I know yiu are not new to casting I moisten a q-tip and lightly swab the mold top and/or bittom of sprue plate. I also touch the swab to the hinge bolt to wick lube to the hinge. When ive applied liquid lube to the mold, ive always end up with wrinkled/bad bases.

    It does sound like this mold is cut undersize, but I'd imagine it was cut to the specifications of the buyer. The smaller size would account for the dropping light.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Yep, this mold was offered as a 462 and also cut to 460. You have the smaller diameter cut, so it was cut correctly as specified. This will account for some of the weight difference as well.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ase-45-70-mold

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Quote "Oh this is a good looking mould and I fully appreciate the learning curve for a brass mould and I'm sure that has an impact on my experience . "

    I suspect it is attributed to the loose nut holding the handles .
    This mould is 1 of 3 " from inventory " donated for prizes for the NCBS .
    It may be that I had greater expectations after reading many threads regarding brass and specifically M-P moulds .
    I did all of the best and recommended things and followed the "manufacturers instructions" . I've had a couple of good moulds that just took several secessions to settle down , none however were true Cadillac moulds .

    There may be some snarkeyness in there somewhere about the top shelf occasionally having marks that don't match what drops out ......

    I will beat this into submission even if I have to take a few licks in the process .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    The MP 462-420 HB is supposed to cast 392 grains as a hollow base and 415 grains as a solid per the group buy I linked above. Your mold, cut to throw a 0.460-0.4605 boolit (couple of thousandths diameter) will also account for a bit of that weight difference also.( 3 grains or so) Mp molds may be spec'd for a wheelweight alloy or 98/1.5/.5.

    "This is a run of an earlier design produced as a Lee GB and by BRP as the 462-420 PB. This will be a two cavity, single crimp groove, cramer brass hollow base mold that is suitable for the 45 caliber rifles. The weight will be about 392 gr as a hollow base and 415 gr. as a solid with a blank pin. It is an accurate as can be attested to by several board members here. A blank plug for a flat base could provided as well as the hollow base plug. The following is the discussion thread."
    Last edited by BK7saum; 06-17-2017 at 03:03 PM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Thanks BK .

    I have had a mould or 2 that were just plain uncooperative .

    Because I've had good results in other moulds with the alloys​ at hand I was let down by these results . I've cast several other 45s from 200 - 417 gr . In several configurations I have at least 1 of those that isn't even close to what it it reported to be . I've run singles with same material hollow base pins without issue , a Lee 405 HB and an Ideal with the removable pin . Neither of which were noticably more difficult to cast than solid base pour bullets once hot . I have over heated 5C 454424 just running it .
    I slowed my pace but then had discord with the sprue plate getting cold .

    The weight and dia are only casual matters as the Remlin 1895 45-70 has a best group of 2.5" to date and is quite happy with anything over .4595" .
    Having shot a few full bore loads at 417 gr , I don't need to do that any more . If I can get me and this mould to talking to each other I'm sure it will improve .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

    dragon813gt's Avatar
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    Run it a few more times. I have a lot of his molds. Can't say I've had a trouble free experience w/ any of them the first time around. Solids are a lot easier to cast but I've still had issues w/ them. Seems about the third or forth run they start working as they should. Had the same thing w/ a few brass NOE mold so I'm chalking it up the mold material and not the manufacturer.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    These appear to be both frosted and have cold wrinkles .......

    Attachment 197790
    Sprue tears are all on me .

    Not to worry I will continue to post as results are available ......
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    MP Brass molds really need to have a good patina to cast well. About the 3rd or 4th session things really start to settle in and boolits drop well with few rejects. It takes a while to get the oil from the brass even with cleaning. Things should start to straighten up soon.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Maybe mentioned but if so I didn't see it... you should pre-heat the mould on a hot plate. Brass moulds like to be used fast and hot... at least in my experience.

    I pre-heat the mould until the sprue plate lube just starts to smoke which is a bit hot but the mould settles in to correct temperature shortly when casting. Once casting keep up a steady fas cadence to keep the mould hot. I have 4 brass moulds (3 Mihec and 1 Accurate) and all like hot alloy and hot mould. My NOE aluminum moulds behave almost exactly like the brass moulds too. None of my iron or other aluminum moulds are as picky but brass and NOE aluminum seem to like HOT and steady use.

    If you use tin in your alloy BK7saum's comment about patina is a good one as some people seem to have trouble with tinning of the clean brass moulds and the patina will keep that from happening. Personally I have never had a problem with tinning but I seldom add tin to my alloy. I have not found that the patina helped casting any just run the mould hot and you should be okay.

    You might also try smoking the mould which is something I normally don't recommend but the thin layer of carbon might insulate just enough to make a difference and let the alloy flow a bit better if the mould is not hot enough. Pre-heat and that shouldn't be a problem.

    Works for me anyway, and has for many years.

    Keep at it and you'll find the trick to casting with the brass mould. Mihec moulds are truly top of the line.

    Longbow

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Cast with it a few more times and i think it will come in.
    Seems no matter how many times i clean a mold it just takes 2 or 3 casting sessions before it make some nice boolits.

    I think N.O.E even says that on his web page.

    Keep trying.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harter66 View Post
    The mould was at 350 and the pot at 725...
    As previously mentioned, brass likes to be run hot. I run my pot at 750. Don't know how hot my mould is, I just place it on the wood stove till it gets hot.

    Don
    NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
    NRA Life Member

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    With my latest Mihec brass mold I heat cycled it at 400F about 6 times for an hour each time. I'm sure that was overkill however once I preheated it and started casting it made beautiful boolits that dropped off the penta pins, no hang ups, in fact it was the best casting session I've ever had in my almost 30 years casting. I ran my pot at 730F. First time I've ever had a casting session with 0 rejects, and I looked hard, it made about 300 perfect pentagonal hollow point boolits.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I'm sure it will come around .
    The balmy 100° days and 40% humidity in my desert Paradise is making any want to cast a few more fade about as quickly as the sunrises maybe I'll get up at 4 and give it another go Friday morning it's only supposed to be 102 and cool off to 65 overnight . I should be able to get a few run before I start to melt myself .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  15. #15
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    I've had several Brass MP molds. Most were great right from the start...but one, in particular was troublesome, and as it was a Group buy, it was troublesome for many, but the boolit is a great design. I bought it second hand, from a local member, and it had never been used. Here is the discussion.

    http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.ph...ity-solid.555/
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Jon
    Thanks for that link .
    The drop out isn't too fussy so no need for radical actions there .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    I've had several Brass MP molds. Most were great right from the start...but one, in particular was troublesome, and as it was a Group buy, it was troublesome for many, but the boolit is a great design. I bought it second hand, from a local member, and it had never been used. Here is the discussion.

    http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.ph...ity-solid.555/
    That's the only MP mold I ever sold off. It was a complete pain in every way. I have the 30 hunter which is the same design but hollow pointed. The pins help pull the bullet out of the blocks. The deep lube grooves are the issue. It's a shame because the bullet shot great out of my 300 Savages.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon813gt View Post
    That's the only MP mold I ever sold off. It was a complete pain in every way. I have the 30 hunter which is the same design but hollow pointed. The pins help pull the bullet out of the blocks. The deep lube grooves are the issue. It's a shame because the bullet shot great out of my 300 Savages.
    If you read through the whole thread I linked to, I solved the issue of sticky cavities by Leementing the mold. WHile the deep lube groove is a small part of the issue, Gear mentioned all the sharp edges of a precision, freshly machined mold...and Leementing, I surmise, dulled all the sharp edges...as it casts like a dream now...but does tend to overheat.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    I have the same issues with my brass 4 cav 452-225-hp mold. It works better now 10-15 casting sessions later but I am done with brass, I see absolutely no advantage over aluminum!

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Well ..........
    I ran another batch more of the same . It seems to be confined to 1 cavity and improving . I hosed it down with brake clean again after it's run and left it on the hot plate for a "free cycle" while I ran another mould .

    Here's to hoping !

    Why is the PB cavity giving me grief and the HB giving me 3/4 for keepers ?
    Retorical question , the answer being " because it can" .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

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