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Thread: .40/.44 Special

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    .40/.44 Special

    I had an interesting chat with old friend Sam, a fancier of fine single-action revolvers, who is a fan of the .38-40 Winchester, but has longed for a modern, rimmed .40 cal. revolver cartridge with correct capacity for smokeless powder, for use in a modern, strong revolver, like a Ruger, at about 25,000 psi.

    The design intent is to use common .44 Special or .44 Magnum brass as feedstock and either .38-40 or .40 S&W bullets. The case necked and shortened to 1" to have a capacity similar to the 10mm auto, but in RIMMED case, better suited for REVOLVER use. Sam and I both plan to rechamber a New Model Ruger .357 and rebore the barrel.

    Another buddy Dave is looking to redo a .401 Herter Powermag

    We call this the ".40/.44 Hotton Hammer," description follows:

    Base brass to be shortened and necked down is either .44 Special or .44 Magnum.

    Case would be necked down to .423 outside diameter, exactly same as the 10mm auto and .40 S&W.

    Cases will be trimmed after necking to 1.0" overall length with neck length 0.3"
    Necks will be reamed to 0.010" wall thickness to provide safe release clearance for a .401" diameter bullet.

    Shoulder angle is 6 degrees, 48 minutes Basic, same as the .38-40 Winchester.

    Case body diameter of finished case is .454" at shoulder, same as .38-40 and .457" at base, unchanged from .44 Special brass.

    Revolver reamer will be dimensioned to cut cylinder throats 0.401" to enable using either jacketed .40 S&W bullets, or .38-40 lead bullets, to be used with 10mm barrel of .400" groove diameter and 16" twist, same as .40 S&W.

    With one inch case length, with 0.3" neck length and 1.55" max. overall cartridge, it is possible to load a bullet up to 0.80" long or about 250 grains, if you wanted to take a Swiss Vetterli bullet and shorten it by cutting the heel off.

    Our plan is to use Accurate 40-215B, double-crimp groove for .38-40 and 5-6 grains Unique as starting load for about 900-950 fps from 4-5/8" Ruger.

    Attachment 197740
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    The thing I would be wondering is if for a single action is the rim a big enough deal to avoid commonly available .40 S&W and 10mm cases. I'm going through this right now, the dilemma. I want a custom .40 revolver on a single action, probably a Uberti, but have a no new caliber rule and don't shoot either of those forties. So I keep telling myself .41 mag works fine, you already load it, buy a wadcutter mold if you want to decrease capacity and call it a day. Have a .41 built on a Uberti if you want a custom revolver.

    But is just isn't the same. There is nothing like a custom revolver project to get the juices flowing.
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  3. #3
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    Like a .41 gnr
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    Does anyone know if JES rebores/ rechamber old model Blackhawks?

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    41 special will meet the need, except for the ultimate uniqueness parameter. Starline has brass and ir fits in a single six! But I do understand the need to design
    Oops you are looking for .400, the 41 special is .410. So your making up a 40 special ...cool
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by castmast View Post
    why not just use a 41 Mag shortened?

    Because .44 Special and .44 Mag brass is plentiful and cheap and .41 Mag is neither.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Someone on this board figured out a way to make rimmed 10mm brass for his S&W M610 to save him the trouble of using moon clips. I can't remember how he did it. Could someone who remembers comment?
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    Boolit Master smkummer's Avatar
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    I like reading about other people tackling a project like this, not me. 38-40 is already here and was offered in the Ruger Blackhawk in the past with I believe an extra 10mm cylinder. I buddy of mine has both a .357 and 44 mag. Herter's power mag. revolvers. He didn't want the 401 Herter's. I flipped .401 brass and ammo I found at a gun show for a big profit a few years ago. The original concept with a cartridge like that was to make modern the 41 Colt which Colt abandoned both in the 30's and in the early 60's and to fit in its medium frame double action gun like the python. In a single action that can chamber a 45 Colt, you have more options including using rimless cases.

  9. #9
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    44 mag case necked down to 41.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebMonkey View Post
    44 mag case necked down to 41. Sweetness
    Actually we are doing .400 / 10mm, not .410
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  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Actually in a single action the neck shoulder should allow for headspace and the rim isn't needed to eject in the single actions so even a rimless case could be used easily. The 44 spl necked down is an interesting idea for this project, if hot rodding the case may not be as usefull as the 44 mag would be at handling pressures.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
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    Sounds like a shortened 38-40 die cut down to a diameter of about .455 at the bottom and formed on 44 special brass should be about what your thinking of.
    I have made many wildcats such as this by shortening a standard caliber die to a diameter to match the brass I want to use.
    On any tapered case as you shorten the sizing die by removing the bottom of the die with a carbide tool or by grinding the base diameter gets smaller and you make the sizing die about .002 larger than the head diameter of the brass you want to use.
    While the 44 special brass would have a reduced inside neck diameter sized with a 38-40 die you can either neck turn / inside ream the brass or ream the neck portion of the sizing die with a carbide reamer to a slightly larger diameter to what is needed.

    Jedman

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master Nobade's Avatar
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    As Web Monkey mentioned... Look up Gary Reeder and his .401 GNR. Already has dies available, builds guns for it, etc...

    -Nobade

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    If you want to use a single action revolver, a rimless case will work.

    I was thinking of making a wildcat cartridge for the small single action that was recently made for the 41LC. It would have used the 10mm case shorted to between the 40 S&W and 10mm cases, so that neither would work in the cylinder. A chamber reamer would have to be made. You could then use light cast bullet loads and not need a heeled bullet or hollow based bullet.

    Just an idea that would give you a 40 cal in a small revolver using an easily made case.

    Edit: Just thought of something. There were a couple of 40 cal wildcats made some years ago. One used the 401 Winchester case and the other used a 30-40 Krag case.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Dave Mansen is making the reamer, for his purposes we are calling it .40/.44 Special Short 1"

    Redding has been sent the reamer print and I'm waiting on the die quote, but am forging ahead.

    Cylinder blanks have been shipped.
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  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedman View Post
    Sounds like a shortened 38-40 die cut down to a diameter of about .455 at the bottom and formed on 44 special brass should be about what your thinking of...While the 44 special brass would have a reduced inside neck diameter sized with a 38-40 die you can either neck turn / inside ream the brass or ream the neck portion of the sizing die with a carbide reamer to a slightly larger diameter to what is needed. Jedman
    .38-40 die is too small all the way around and won't work resizing thicker .44 Special or .44 Magnum brass.

    Plan to have scratch-built proper file-trim, inside-ream and cartridge loading dies to fit the chamber, providing correct bullet release clearance with adequate neck and body wall, stronger than paper-thin .38-40 brass... to handle full 10mm pressure in rechambered Ruger.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Outpost -

    Howdy !

    As regards what has been said about use of a rimless case......

    A .35 Remington case has the base OD you mention.
    Cutting the case off right @ the shoulder gives you a .40 cal, plus some minor change.

    This wildcat is larger in capacity than a 10mm auto, as it has greater oal.

    FWIW:
    One can use .45ACP moon clips... if an "N" frame were the revolver of choice.

    *** None of this is what you asked for ! ***


    With regards,
    357Mag

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    We are set to use .44 Spl. or .44 Russian as the basic brass. Reamer has been ordered from Mansen, cylinder blanks for Ruger have been shipped. Barrel blank from Green Mountain ordered.

    Train has left the station.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 05-23-2018 at 07:16 PM.
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  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Outpost -

    Howdy, again !

    Too late to do any good.....

    It occurred to me that .30-40 Krag brass could fit the bill, as regards a rimmed parent case that had the correct major diameters.

    Please keep us posted on your progress !


    With regards,
    357Mag

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Got lots of .44 Spl. and .44 Mag brass for free.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check