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Thread: 500-600 gr. 45-70 Load Data

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Johnw...ski's Avatar
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    500-600 gr. 45-70 Load Data

    Does anyone publish load data for the big 500 to 600 gr. boolits and smokeless powder in the 45-70 cartridge.

    Thanks,

    John

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I use 54gr WC872/860 with a 3gr unique kicker for a 500gr boolit. Volocity 1350 +- accuracy good 1"1/2" at 100 yds almost a double for black powder. As far as published loads haven't seen any in my books and I have 14 different books. This is a compressed load, has to be to keep the powder separate. You can use straight wc872/860 60-63 gr but it is kinda dirty that way, with the kicker it cleans up nicely.
    As always use caution wit any data, I do not think you can get enough of eather 872-860 in the case to hurt anything. A crimp is useful to get the pressure up to = Black.
    Last edited by Freightman; 01-09-2012 at 02:06 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master McLintock's Avatar
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    There's a line of reloading books called "One Book/One Caliber", and the one for 45-70 "the Complete Reloading Manual for the 45-70 Government" lists max loads for 500 gr'ers, both cast and jacketed, but nothing above that. Haven't ever heard of anyone using a 600 gr bullet in .45 Caliber, 540-560 in cast but no jacketed. Fastest loads in the above book for 500 gr jacketed are about 1600-1680 fps. The book is usually available at gun shows and maybe Midway or Cabela's; I think I got mine at Sportsman's Warehouse.
    McLintock

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Johnw...ski's Avatar
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    b

    I have the book "One Book/One Caliber" in 45-70, I prefur the slower powders and they mostly have faster powders. I have never had much luck with IMR 4198 and never tried anything faster, maybe I am missing the boat here.

    I'll refine what I am looking for a bit, the mold I am using casts boolits that are between 530 and 535 gr. My alloy is around 30:1, Pb:Sn so I am not looking for the fastest loads just excellent accuracy.

    John



    Quote Originally Posted by McLintock View Post
    There's a line of reloading books called "One Book/One Caliber", and the one for 45-70 "the Complete Reloading Manual for the 45-70 Government" lists max loads for 500 gr'ers, both cast and jacketed, but nothing above that. Haven't ever heard of anyone using a 600 gr bullet in .45 Caliber, 540-560 in cast but no jacketed. Fastest loads in the above book for 500 gr jacketed are about 1600-1680 fps. The book is usually available at gun shows and maybe Midway or Cabela's; I think I got mine at Sportsman's Warehouse.
    McLintock

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    John,

    IMR 4198 is a bit on the slow side - even behind a 530 grain bullet. IMR 4227, on the other hand, is a little too fast. You need to find something in between, maybe Accurate XMR 5744, Winchester 296, or, If you can find it, Vithavuori N120 which is a great powder for pushing large chunks of lead. I use it for shooting 540 grains cast bullets in my Martini Henry. I use turned brass cases, and the internal volume is identical to that of a 45-70. A load of 25 grains N120 gives a respectable 1200 fps at only 15000 psi. You should be able to get well over 1400 fps - and still be within SAAMI's 28000 psi Max.
    Cap'n Morgan

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Hmmm, I've seen this post before
    So, Lyman's New 49th Reloading Manual ...
    Regards
    John

  7. #7
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    I use a LOT of Varget.... 40-45gr. behind a 500 works great in the 45-70. Not sure if this is a safe load in a trapdoor but it is quite mild and just right out of a Sharps. I use 50-55gr.s behind a 405 in my 86win.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master Johnw...ski's Avatar
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    Hmmm, thats pretty close to IMR 4064, I may just try some 4064 first and if that is promising try Varget which I'll bet will meter nicely.

    Thanks,

    John

    Quote Originally Posted by freedom475 View Post
    I use a LOT of Varget.... 40-45gr. behind a 500 works great in the 45-70. Not sure if this is a safe load in a trapdoor but it is quite mild and just right out of a Sharps. I use 50-55gr.s behind a 405 in my 86win.

  9. #9

    reloading smokeless 45/70

    I have a Shiloh Sharps Long Range Express 34in heavy octagon barrel
    topped with a MVA 6X full length scope.

    my load is 23.5 gr 2400
    500 gr bullet
    trimmed to length
    federal rifle primer

    this rifle has shot @ 200yds 100/100 with 7 X's

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    If you want to keep the pressure inside of SAAMI specs you are going to be looking at some slow powder with boolits that heavy. Basically IMR 4350 or anything else slower, used as a compressed load. Just figure out where you want the base of the boolit to be and fill 'er up to there.

    Personally I have been having great results with IMR 7383 and the 535gr. Pedersoli Gibbs boolit, paper patched up to .459". It gives just slightly better speed than black powder and is super accurate out as far as my range goes (750 yards). You can use a drop tube to get a little more powder in the case but it doesn't matter much.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Can't remember where I picked the load up from. 46 gr of Varget in Remington cases 1640 fps out of a Marlin 1895.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    Can't remember where I picked the load up from. 46 gr of Varget in Remington cases 1640 fps out of a Marlin 1895.
    What weight bullet are you shooting to get that velocity?

    I use 50 grains of Varget behind a Lee 500 RN in 45/90 and although I don't know the velocity it seems quite tame, tame to me and my 14 1/2 lb rifle anyway but it might be a bit heavy for an older BP action.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    It dropps 495 gr from my alloy. I will try to find where I picked up the data, had to get it from somewhere I don't take chances? That may help with the pressure question. The recoil is tolerable but my rifle weighes half as much as yours.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I think I took notes out of the new 49th Lyman book? Please verify this yourself but it's ok in my rifle (Marlin 1895) with 46 gr of Varget. 45 gr of Varget 1356 fps 16,700 CUP. The Ruger info starts at 50 gr of Varget 24,600 CUP.

  15. #15
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    Digging in my 45-70 data I found some testing I did with 600gr jacketed bullets in my NEF 45-70. These bullets were made using my Hybrid method and used 30-06 cases as the jacket. The bullets were 1.55" long, and were bore riding starting .600" from the base to the ogive. They were seated .500" deep, oal 3.15". The loads used 2230s for powder, R-P brass, and WLR primers. Using this powder resulted in the following: (grs/vel), (32/1215), (33/1285), (34/1320), (35/1280), (36/1290), (37/1380), (38/1450). Yes, the data doesn't follow a straight line; but, that's what it was. The last load was a TOP load and the temp was 55 degrees. Further testing with other powders (not available) showed that 1450 was about all one could get safely in my NEF 45-70 with that bullet weight and design.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check