How to waste 2 hours and think your press is demon possessed

[omgb]

OK, so I decided to run 100 32-20 rounds through my LNL today. I usually use my T7 for a short run like that but I wanted to get it done in like 30 min or so.

So, I set up the dies....no sweat except that I had to put LNL rings on them. Then I swapped out the shell plate for a #7, again, no sweat.
I then discovered or rediscovered really that the Lee factory crimp die will not work on a LNL. I knew that but this press has been inactive for over a year...I just forgot. The RC is right next to it and it has a case kicker so I figured I'd just run them through the old green lady after their dance around the LNL.

Now to set up the case activated powder drop. I had a custom expander plug made for the 32-20 a few years back by Buckshot. It fits my one LNL powder measure perfectly but was a few .000 big to work in this one...go figure. I chucked it in the drill press and turned it down. Then I polished it and finally it fit.

Now to set the charge. 11.4 grains of Blackhorn 209. Easy peesy, it meters well. Now on to the priming system. I grab a small primer tube from the drawer and load it up. The press starts cranking out ammo but the primers are failing to load most of the time. I cleaned everything, emptied the primer tube, checked everything and started back up. It all worked for about 20 rounds and then started failing to feed and worse, it would lock the press a few degrees off of fully advanced. Not a lot, but enough that I ruined 6 or 7 cases. ****! More fiddling, more missed primers. I am wanted to pitch this friggen machine. I'm 1:45 into a 20 minute project and I'm POd. The wife calls me for dinner....Calzones! A full belly and a glass of wine and I have a news flash....I'm using the wrong primer tube and I'm not using the little centering bushing that holds the primer tube centered. Shoot, I just remembered. Hornady uses special primer tubes that are extra long. You fill them with regular primer tubes thus each press has 4 tubes, a LARGE AND SMALL PRESS FEEDER TUBE AND A LARGE AND SMALL FILLER TUBE. Cripes! what an idiot. I get the right tube in the press and the cases just fly through the machine and the primers drop perfectly. 2.5 hours wasted! I'm going to use this machine more often. Did you guys know that Hornady does not have a shell plate for the LNL in .348 Win? Nor in 50-90, 50-110 or 50-140 either. All the same case so it's no surprise; miss one and you don't have any of them.


I really like that BH209 for BPCR. Easy cleaning, no fouling build up, first shot shoots to the same place as the last, any old lube works fine.

That was my day.

[308Jeff]

Hate it when that happens!

I'm confused about the Lee FCD?

[omgb]

The mouth of the die is too big to enter the milled radius of the shell plate. Thus it's about .25" short of engagement.

[TexasGrunt]

Also if you put the primer tube in upside down it causes problems.

[OS OK]

Huuummm? . . . Had to think about this a while...then it hit me!

"What are you fluxing with?"

Fluxing with ground dried marijuana stalks?

[noylj]

>I then discovered or rediscovered really that the Lee factory crimp die will not work on a LNL.

They work well on my L-N-L. What is the problem? Of course, they don't work well with some of my cast bullets, so I relegated them to Bulge Busting only. If your issue was with the Lee lock rings, that you replaced with the Hornady, I can tell you that the Lee rings work just fine for me. At the most, I remove the elastomer o-ring and turn the ring upside down.

You have a custom powder-through expander that is too big to fit what? The Powder die? Then use the other powder die that it does fit.
Really, you lost me when you HAD to replace the lock rings with Hornady. I use Lee and Hornady and Dillon and RCBS and Redding and Forster dies all the time and have never HAD to replace a lock ring.
Pictures would really help as I never had an issues with my L-N-L or the ones I helped others set-up and I loaded .32-20 on mine with no issues or custom parts.

[MT Chambers]

THe main thing is that you saved time over using your single stage.

[RogerDat]

Definition - Mechanical Device or Machine:
What we used to frustrate us while holding out the promise of massive increase in productivity and leisure time... before we had computers to do that job.

[Carrier]

>I then discovered or rediscovered really that the Lee factory crimp die will not work on a LNL.

They work well on my L-N-L. What is the problem? Of course, they don't work well with some of my cast bullets, so I relegated them to Bulge Busting only. If your issue was with the Lee lock rings, that you replaced with the Hornady, I can tell you that the Lee rings work just fine for me. At the most, I remove the elastomer o-ring and turn the ring upside down.

You have a custom powder-through expander that is too big to fit what? The Powder die? Then use the other powder die that it does fit.
Really, you lost me when you HAD to replace the lock rings with Hornady. I use Lee and Hornady and Dillon and RCBS and Redding and Forster dies all the time and have never HAD to replace a lock ring.
Pictures would really help as I never had an issues with my L-N-L or the ones I helped others set-up and I loaded .32-20 on mine with no issues or custom parts.

I can't figure this out as well. I don't load 32-20 but use lots of Lee dies on my LNL as well as FCD.

[omgb]

I did not replace any lock rings. Sheesh. In 32-20 the case is too short to go into the Lee die far enough to do the crimp. The shell plate has radii cut into it to accept the mouth of a reloading die. With the 32-20 FCD the die mouth is too wide to pass the radii and bottom on the shell plate. I've tried it six ways to Sunday and in 32-20 it won't go.

The custom expander is designed to slip fit in the powder die. One of the dies, an early one made before the expanders were offered is maybe .002 too tight. I just took some off the expander and all it good. Really guys, this was just an account of how many things can be a PITA when you want to get something done fast. For the record, all of the rifle FCDs fit the LNL press perfectly.

So now to load 32-20 I have a sizer-deprimer die, the powder/expander station and a seating station. I don't use a powder cop with BH209 because it fills the case and can easily be seen.


Geez, I just figured out what you understood with the rings deal. I'm talking about the LNL press adapter rings that the die screws into.

[308Jeff]

I understood what you meant about the FCD not working for 32-20. I can't tell from noylj's post if he has used a 32-20 FCD in his LNL AP or not? If so, the reason for that may be that from time to time Hornady makes changes/improvements to their shellplates. The 9mm plate is a good example.

If noylj isn't using a Lee FCD, perhaps the 32-20 FCD simply doesn't work with the Hornady shell plate.

I also understood you meant bushings when you said adapter rings, but that's probably what caused that confusion.

[noylj]

I am more flailing my arms in the air trying to understand what the problem is then arguing anything about anything.
I have to admit that my first response was for the Lee straight-wall FCD, as the .32-20 is a bottleneck but it handles like a straight wall case in many ways.
I assume you are using the collet FCD Lee makes for .32-20 expressly: see
http://leeprecision.com/factory-crimp-die-32-20.html
There is a video on that page where the die is used on the small Lee Reloading Press with standard shell holder.
My confusion is really about the "radii on the shell plate to fit the die" and, if true, that would imply that the die can't work with any shell holder or shell plate that does not have these radii.
What it really boils down to—Pictures and exact terminology work wonders to help us understand the issue.
Attached is a picture of the Lee bottleneck FCD, where Lee says to screw it in 1/2 turn past the point where the die contacts the shell plate (thus, "camming-over" the press, which is something I have never done and will never do with any progressive press). Other than that hint in Lee's picture of something different about the Lee shell plate around where the case enters the shell plate (and it might just be a polished area that Lee puts on for aesthetics), I don't see any difference.
I will say that if I had to cam-over my press to use the die, it would be done on my free Lee Reloading Press--just as Lee shows in their video.
If you can use this die with a normal shell holder, you should be able to use it with any shell plate—I've never seen any difference between the case head to top of shell plate/shell holder distance between the two. If it can only be done with a shell plate with what your describe as radii for the die on the Lee shell plate in the picture, then the die can only be used with the Lee shell plate and should say so.
If the problem is that the die bushing is getting in the way, does that mean the die body can't be turned down further? What is stopping the die from being turned down? Right now, my L-N-L (which is now my son's L-N-L) is about 1200 miles away, but I don't remember any time the die bushings got in the way or if they even extend past the die holes in the die head (I do know that the crimp dies, any crimp dies, always got in the way of the useless ejector wire Hornady supplied before the EZject came out).
Just seems that there are lots of folks who load .223 and .380 on their Hornady and a lot of them like the bottleneck FCD, without any postings about problems, and I am curious about this problem you're having.
Of course, my answer to all roll crimp questions is "Get the Redding Profile Crimp Die" and never look back—it's what I use for .32-20 on my Hornady L-N-L, Co-Ax, and, if I ever load it on one of them, my Dillon 1050s (see Redding #86281).
So, I make no claims of knowledge, just do not understand the issue.

[308Jeff]

I think that what he's saying is that due the outside diameter of the bottom portion of the Lee FCD, it contacts the outer surface of the shellplate rather than the milled recess where it should.

Meaning the FCD collet is being activated before the round is fully inside the die like it should be.

[omgb]

Yes. The mouth of the LFC needs to be able to bottom in the milled radial slot of the shell plate. It can't because the diameter of the die mouth is greater than the diameter of the milled radii thus the die bottoms on the top face of the plate.

[noylj]

Then, how does it work with a standard shell holder?
It sounds as though the whole thing depends on pretty critical dimensions between where the die body hits the shell holder/plate and where the collet is in the die, with NO ability to adjust? If so, sounds like something that would ONLY work on Lee equipment that meets this dimensioning, EXCEPT it does work with Lee shell holders—that seem to be JUST THE SAME as all other shell holders, which seemed to have the same dimension case head to top of shell holder, as my shell plates.
Best I could say is, if you're right and that die is that problematic and that important to producing an accurate load, get the little Lee Reloading Press so you can use the die, and also bulge bust and do very small reloading jobs as needed. I know I have had the little press mounted in the garage for lots of odd jobs over the last twenty years.
Did you call Lee?