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Thread: Suggestions for a kid's muzzleloader for DEER????

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Suggestions for a kid's muzzleloader for DEER????

    Here in Nevada we have mule deer youth hunts where the kid can hunt all three seasons(bow, muzzleloader, rifle) on the same tag until it is filled. We have been working daily on the archery portion, but now we have to think of getting the kid a muzzleloader. Nevada law stipulates the minimum caliber of .45 and OPEN SIGHTS ONLY. After shooting his CVA Squirrel last weekend, he really wants to stick with the traditional sidelock style. With the open sights, we are DEFINITELY talking under 100yds, well under 100yds. Now, Kody weighs only around 84lbs so I am looking for something that doesn't weigh a ton or kick like the proverbial mule. Definitely want to hit the used market first to try to find something. What do you guys suggest....45 or .50? Twist rate? Suggestions of specific models would be greatly appreciated, as well as ones to avoid.

    Thanks again,

    Jim

  2. #2
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    I'd look into a Traditions Hawken Woodsman. A little over 7lbs, great looking and handling rifle, 50cal with a 1:48 twist for beautiful patched ball accuracy, along with lighter weight sabots and of course, conicals of all weights.

    There's also the smaller traditions deerhunter as well.

    I'd certainly go with a 50cal

  3. #3
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    I agree a 50 cal for sure yeah a 45 will work too but a 50 with a round ball don't really recoil anyways so go with bigger and heavier and a moderate load and he'll be fine . Might want to look around for a youth proportioned stock unless he is a lanky lad hard to shoot a rifle well that don't fit him most production guns have a 13.5-14" LOP not counting the crescent shaped butplate that most traditional types wear .

    Tim
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Maybe find an older beat up rifle like a CVA in .50 caliber and cut it down to fit him. Have Kody help out and it might get him started on a life time hobby.

  5. #5
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    .45 or .50, I would take my .45 Cal GM LRH over any other Muzzleloader i own. But if round ball were your thing with this particular rifle i would say the .50 Cal is the better choice

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Ultimately I figure LOP will be an issue as I'm not aware of child-sized rifles.

    When I first began looking for my rifle I wanted something fairly handy and lightweight as I knew it wouldn't be my only gun. This would work nicely for stalking and do well enough for still hunting.

    Reading what many said about recoil, especially with conicals I decided I don't want it to weigh too little. I initially considered the Traditions Deerhunter, Pedersoli Country Hunter, and the Lyman Deerstalker, which is what I chose as it was light enough at 7 lbs and came with a recoil pad.

    I'm not recoil sensitive per se but a pump shotgun during dove season showed me that after a few hours it had become uncomfortable. And so I figured conicals in a .50 cal would be akin to a .45-70. A .50 cal ball at the range is nothing using my typical 70 grns of 3F and surprisingly it wasn't much with the same charge and the 320 grn REAL, though I didn't shoot many.

    I didn't care much for the way the Traditions rifle looks and the light weight of the Pedersoli with no recoil pad kept me from opting for it either along with the additional cost.

    I chose the .50 cal as it was certainly plenty for medium game and I felt a conical would make it good for large game were into get an opportunity. But it also has the most accessories and options. Knowing what I know now I'd have gone for the .54 though...

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I would also add a recoil pad. I have a Lab that out weighs that little fellow by 10 lb. It great to hear you getting him
    into black powder, for it will be with him his whole life.

    Fly

  8. #8
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    T/C Renegades have a pretty short length-of-pull and at 26 inches in length the barrel weight shouldn't be too much deterrent but at the same time hefty enough to keep a deer-killin' load from bein' too punishin'.


    luck & have a good'en, bubba.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    CVA and Traditions made quite a few smaller M/Ls with 24 or 26 inch barrels. A 50 would be easier to find but I wouldn't pass over a 45 either if you found one to suit your bit. You could beef up the load on the 45 to match a 50 that you may have to load lighter for him. Either would do the job if he does hi part. What part of NV?
    Aim small, miss small!

  10. #10
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooman76 View Post
    CVA and Traditions made quite a few smaller M/Ls with 24 or 26 inch barrels. A 50 would be easier to find but I wouldn't pass over a 45 either if you found one to suit your bit. You could beef up the load on the 45 to match a 50 that you may have to load lighter for him. Either would do the job if he does hi part. What part of NV?
    We live in south Reno and his hunting units are 171-173 which are south of Austin, NV. He only picked units that also offered good fishing...smart kid!

    Jim

  11. #11
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54bore View Post
    .45 or .50, I would take my .45 Cal GM LRH over any other Muzzleloader i own. But if round ball were your thing with this particular rifle i would say the .50 Cal is the better choice
    When he gets bigger...and I get one for myself, first!!!!

    Jim

  12. #12
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba.50 View Post
    T/C Renegades have a pretty short length-of-pull and at 26 inches in length the barrel weight shouldn't be too much deterrent but at the same time hefty enough to keep a deer-killin' load from bein' too punishin'.


    luck & have a good'en, bubba.
    ...and later we could get one of those LRH barrels that 54bore keeps talking about!

    Jim

  13. #13
    Boolit Man
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    Guys, great insight on things I never thought of like a recoil pad. Question....are all .50 calibers 1" barrels? ...thinking about weight here. Now, I do know that the 50cal makes the most sense, but the back of my mind I am thinking if we get him a .45cal, later we will have to get him a .50cal. I am the kind of guy that would like my son to have two more muzzleloaders than one. That way, if he gets a .45cal, I will tell Mom that Dad needs a .45cal, too! Same thing happens when I get him a .50, .54 or whatever.
    Now, if I find a .45, which I didn't see in Idaho when I got the .36, what kind of twist rate do you have to have to shoot a Maxi? A 245gr Maxi should be plenty for any deer that walks the planet at the ranges we are talking about.
    ANYTHING else you guys can think of let me know.

    Jim

  14. #14
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    no, most lower end 50's will have 15/16ths barrels. may even be a few out there with 7/8ths.

  15. #15
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    I never had a problem killing a deer with a .45. Check your laws, some states are round ball only. I know Montana is, because I helped write the regulations about 40 years ago.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Even a .45 cal ball would be plenty and recoil less as well.

    If the both of you will be needing another muzzleloader each I'd think a .45 followed by a .54 would be close to ideal!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    i will chime in, I remember taking my kids to an NRA sponsored outdoor expo back when my son was 8. we shot a 50 cal. white mountiane rifle. seems the load was 50 to 60 gr. of BP. mild as can be.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    get your son a T/C Encore it's a rifle he can grow with I started my son off with one when he was 12 years old his 20ga with slugs was just
    to much for him I started him off with 50gr of pyrodex under a 240gr XTP but before we went hunting I re sighted it in with 80gr he never knew Attachment 197296 Attachment 197297
    kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies

  19. #19
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    while the Encore is an excellent gun it's not a sidelock as the OP is lookin' for.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Lots of choices around. If you can find an old CVA youth model sidehammer your search could be over. I use them to teach at a boys & girls camp during the summer. .50 cal - easy to shoot and easy on the smaller shooter. Plenty accurate and soldier proof. Seems the used market should have an abundance of them floating around. I know one of the camp guns has over 5,000 rounds through it and it's going strong. I've been doing this for more than 15 years and there have been only a couple years when we shot less than 500. Even those years, hundreds have gone down range.
    Last edited by 725; 06-09-2017 at 10:08 PM. Reason: grammer

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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