Increasing Terminal Performance on a 30wcf.

[OverMax]

We all know its suggested to use Flat Point bullets in tube feed firearms.

Have been toying with 170 gr. Flat Point cast drilled to resemble F-P HP tips. And done so with different size drill bits. Have noticed on more then one occasion using such home made cast made of (CO/WW) either the rifles recoil or their loading and reloading Tip-to-cartridge-base under spring pressure either or both situations seem to be the culprit distorting my boolits H.P. tips.

It's kind of a not knowing the cast Tips condition while hunting and shooting. That. Makes me wonder if those distorted H.P. Tipped boolits will end up at >my<preferred point of aim and maintaining the performance I was expecting from H.P. use. S~o

Is there some-other-way/ besides HP'ing a boolits Tip that will show similar down range expansion on thin skin animals where CO/WW is the cast material chosen because of its reputation for ideal Flat Point or H.P. expansion purposes?

thanks,

[Rainier]

Maybe you can get away without a hollow point...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...e-in-the-world

[Outpost75]

A flat point of 0.6-0.7 of bullet diameter in suitable alloy such as 96-2-2 Pb-Sb-Sn will give classic mushroom expansion with deep penetration and 80-85% weight retention at .30-30 velocities.

[williamwaco]

They will still hit a clay pigeon at any reasonable cast bullet range.

[Artful]

soft alloy, large flat tip and moderate velocity seemed to work for me.

[Harter66]

These are a 200 gr 1 off that might be described as cutting 30 gr off the base of a NOE 311-230 .
They were cast of 75/25 WW/1-20 they ended up at 195-197 gr and up to .630 with a MV right at 1700 fps . These were taken from a wet powder clay bank at 100 yd impact speed estimates at 1400 fps . They started out 1.14 inches long and we're about 3/10s tall base to dome .

Attachment 197191

[OverMax]

96-2-2 is a 40 to 1 mix or 8 BHN so I believe.
That some mighty soft shoot'in lead there partner. Especially at G/c cast rifle speed. Here I was worried about 12 BHN Tips deforming in my rifles mag tube. (after some thought) No matter. To soft or not. I only require one shot per animal~~ paper or ~~clay targets.



"Maybe you can get away without a hollow point."
The deer in the link in my estimation was a good example of poor aiming. In front or at the shoulder never turns out well for thin skin quarry.

[Outpost75]

1:40, 1:30 BOTH WORK.

No leading issues with 4064, RL15 or Varget and 50-50 Alox-beeswax.

[Chill Wills]

96-2-2 is a 40 to 1 mix or 8 BHN so I believe.
That some mighty soft shoot'in lead there partner. Especially at G/c cast rifle speed. Here I was worried about 12 BHN

40 to 1 Pb - Sn is 2.5% tin and zero Sb, ..... and I agree, that is soft. But, the above 96-2-2 is not even close to 40-1.


96% Pb, 2% Sn, 2% Sb = is about 13 -14 BHN in my experience.

[mnewcomb59]

Run 'er as a two shooter. Also, try a small v-shaped cup point with a pocket knife rather than sinking in with a drill bit. A drill bit leaves thin, nearly parallel walls that deform easily. Any impact over 1300 fps, a shallow cup point usually opens up. From my experience with 357 rifle, you only need a drill bit at impact velocities under 1300 fps.

[Geezer in NH]

Studies have shown a messed up tip of a bullet does not hurt the grouping much. A messed up base will do that.

Check your load for problems other than the tip.

[Harter66]

96-2-2 is a 40 to 1 mix or 8 BHN so I believe.
That some mighty soft shoot'in lead there partner. Especially at G/c cast rifle speed. Here I was worried about 12 BHN Tips deforming in my rifles mag tube. (after some thought) No matter. To soft or not. I only require one shot per animal~~ paper or ~~clay targets.



"Maybe you can get away without a hollow point."
The deer in the link in my estimation was a good example of poor aiming. In front or at the shoulder never turns out well for thin skin quarry.

I I papered this bullet up to .317 for an SKS but shot it as cast PB in an 06' both at about 1700 fps . The bullet design was poor and the twist too fast in both to go any faster . The SKS was case capacity limited of course but the 06' just has too much twist , a special order rifle I suspect .
Yes still a pretty soft bullet .

[Texas by God]

Studies have shown a messed up tip of a bullet does not hurt the grouping much. A messed up base will do that.

Check your load for problems other than the tip.

This. I've shot lots of ugly tip bullets into small groups.

[GooseGestapo]

I use an automatic Center punch to dimple the center of the flat point bullet. I then drill with a 1/8" bit, 3/8" deep. Plenty of metal left, accuracy is actually slightly improved.
I use w/w-50/50 pure lead, no tip damage in magazine.
I only hp-10 or so rounds for hunting.
I also do this for .338ME and.35Rem. I was afraid that the Lee .338" 220gr RNGC from the .338ME might not expand. With the hp, I got excellent expansion and a 1" exit wound on a chest/heart shot on a ~150lb whitetail. Indistinguishable from factory 200gr FTX.
Ditto the .35Rem. I no longer shoot jacketed from the .35. It's my favorite deer/hog getter, still. Even better now with the RCBS 200gr FNGC (218gr!). 39.0gr BLC2 @ 2,050. <2" at 100yds, 5-shots.

With the .30/30, I use the Lee .309 (.311") 150gr FNGC ((158gr) over 32.0gr of RL15 for 2,150fps. Also very accurate.

[OverMax]

Years ago when my Father Guided some here in Northern MN {deer & Black bear} when farming was slow do to seasonal change. He and many other old timers would 4-way slice their bullet tips {cast & jacketed} so to enhance their bullets expansion upon impact.{or so it was thought} I suspect that bullet trickery is now a long forgotten technique.

I wanting to shoot a lower BHN factor near a 8. I haven't as of yet found a way to keep 4-5 cartridges in the tube from distorting one or more HP bullet tips. By distortion I mean the HP bullets tips resemble a glancing blow kind of look. I've been wondering if Powder Coating might be the answer to that tip damaging disappointment?~~ or~~ could such a coating inhibit a HPs immediate expansion?

[Dan Cash]

Flat point .30 bullet cast of wheel weight metal is sure enough deer medicine. 31141 at 1600 fps is deadly to 100-150 yards.

[17nut]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...al-safety-slug


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/84807291/Gla...y%20Bullet.pdf

[Larry Gibson]

I've killed many deer with the Lyman 311041 HP bullet with the HP stem shortened to give a 3/16" deep HP. I cast them of 16-1 alloy or COWWs + 2% tin them mix 50/50 with lead. I drive them 1950 - 2200 fps depending on carbine or rifle M94. They are deadly on deer to 200 yards (just my personal max range with cast). The Forster 1/8" HP tool is also used on many different RN and FP cast bullets from 7mm up through .375 with a 3/16" deep HP when cast of similar alloys. Here's the RCBS 35-200-FN loaded to 2150 fps out of a 35 Rem with the Forster, HP'd with the Forster and used a nice little Texas white tail.

Attachment 198301Attachment 198302Attachment 198303

The 311041 HP'd performs and gives the exact same terminal performance. The bullet noses do not collapse or get too beat up in the mag tube.

Larry Gibson

[OverMax]

After reading all the comments and Larry Gibson's comment too >1/8" drilling. I then went to the Forester site and became aware almost immediately in its reading what may be the disappointment in my HP making.

I use a machine shop size drill press and viced bullet jig to make my H.P. tips. "Stupid is as stupid does."_ My use of LARGER drill bits than what is suggested >1/8" without a doubt create a dandy larger HP cavity. Although in turn leaves its bullets nose structurally less lead and supporting "I'm speculating." to ward off recoil blows and spring tension pressure. WoW!!

I knew you fellows would help me figure out the problem with my 30-30 HP collapsing's. "Way to go gents!"