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Thread: So close to a score of 7.92 brass but wrong primer

  1. #21
    Boolit Master


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    Guess someone did not see the .......

    Larry Gibson

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    I will only reform military 30-06 brass. The head stamp doesn't have a caliber, just factory id and date or date code. Not finding a whole lot of prices or in stock Berdn primers either.

    Tool to remove berdan primer is about the same price as the form die and Harbor Freight chop saw for making 8mm brass out of 30-06. But I had military 30-06 when I bought that stuff to cover my 8mm needs, not wild about spending that much money again to pull the Berdan primers.
    Last edited by RogerDat; 06-12-2017 at 08:19 AM.
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat I do trade a bit from time to time.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multigunner View Post
    I punched a hole in the firing pin indentation of the expended Berdan primers with a shortened upholstery regulator probe with handle, I then just pried the primers out. They came out fairly easily.
    The point of the regulator did damage the anvils of some cases, but not badly.

    These particular cases seem to be thicker than commercial cases and of a more malleable brass alloy.
    Is an upholstery regulator with handle one of these things that look a lot like a heavy duty ice pick?
    http://www.gencosupplies.com/product...og.cfm?cid=132 If that is the tool it is relatively inexpensive at ~$10 . Or possibly use a scratch awl on fired primers? I did see an article on doing that, nice trick was to remove decapping rod and run die up from the bottom of press to use die as a case holder.
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat I do trade a bit from time to time.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    OP, if only Mr. Boxer had gotten to the militaries before Mr. Berdan. Berdan had already sold most of Europe on his system. Only the US was left as a customer for Mr. Boxer. Which is pretty lucky for us.

    The British never were really good with commerce, they tended to be a day late and a pound short compared to the US and Asia...

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Went back and picked some of that brass for another member, it is nice and it really is a torment. Don't have a source for Berdan primers, and not much found online. That leaves drilling if I want to use some of this. Which the more I think about it the more sense it makes, I stock a supply of boxer primers that means I avoid having to stock a different primer, one I can't seem to find anyway.
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat I do trade a bit from time to time.

  6. #26
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    RodgerDat

    Yeah that's a regulator.
    The one I used had been cut down and reground for close in work so it was a bit less likely to break than a new full length one would be.

    I also used an old small diameter shaft screw driver that I had ground to punch narrow slots for stitching thick leather. That really worked better.

    I put the case in a hole drilled in an aluminum plate about 3/8" thick to hold it steady while punching into the cup. a sharp rap on the handle with a rawhide mallet would punch through easily enough if you position the sharp end against the inside of the indentation at an angle.
    Care must be taken of course.

    I didn't do this because its a better method, its just the only thing I could think of using tools already at hand.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    The reason the British went with the Berdan primer was because of a horrific explosion at a crowded dock when a cargo net broke loose and dropped some large crates of very sensitive mercuric Boxer primers that exploded on impact, probably setting off other explosives. Quite a few people were blown apart including a young couple and their children who were there to see someone off.

    The article I read on this, from a publication of that era, was explaining why the authorities had passed a law preventing the shipment of Boxer primers with the anvil already inserted. To continue to use Boxer primers would require that the end users set up an assembly line to insert the anvils before the primers could be used. In the end it was much cheaper and safer to simply used the Berdan primer system.

    The British did everything possible to prevent reloading of spent brass in the countries they once dominated. Reloading scavenged brass was the primary source of ammunition for rebel groups in India and Africa at the time.

    Fact is though the Berdan primers are much simpler and cheaper to make.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multigunner View Post
    RodgerDat

    Yeah that's a regulator.
    The one I used had been cut down and reground for close in work so it was a bit less likely to break than a new full length one would be.

    I also used an old small diameter shaft screw driver that I had ground to punch narrow slots for stitching thick leather. That really worked better.

    I put the case in a hole drilled in an aluminum plate about 3/8" thick to hold it steady while punching into the cup. a sharp rap on the handle with a rawhide mallet would punch through easily enough if you position the sharp end against the inside of the indentation at an angle.
    Care must be taken of course.

    I didn't do this because its a better method, its just the only thing I could think of using tools already at hand.
    Innovation is the art of looking around and finding a creative solution to a problem given what is on hand. Tools on hand that work vs. $50 tool that has a pin that breaks. Hmmm? Think I'm with you, if I decided to tackle removing I would first see if I have a Harbor Freight screwdriver I could put to a grinder. Or pick up an ice pick and grind it short enough to be stronger.

    I just can't find the primers so no point. Sounds like folks that pounced on a brick of berdan primers when they saw them may have a source of good quality cheap brass. I think the common brass sizes go for about 40% of boxer primed in same brass.

    One of the things I love about this site is the wealth of knowledge that gets exchanged, solutions or history that is casting, reloading, or firearms related. I knew the sources in general for the two different primers, always thought it was funny a Brit invented ours and a Yank invented theirs. Did not know the additional information from Multigunner.

    I'm sure my jr. high (middle school) shop teacher wherever he is probably shakes his head anytime I use a screw driver to open a metal paint can. My tip of the hat to all he taught me is I always use the same old, heavy one that is useless for screws unless I re-grind the end.
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat I do trade a bit from time to time.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    7.92 brass picture

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20170618_15435401.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	105.6 KB 
ID:	197871 200 cases pretty much fill a full size bread loaf pan.

    As they say picture worth 1k words....
    There is some blue corrosion in spots but from what I can see it is surface and not deep. I have done old military 30-06 in similar condition and a short soak in plastic bucket of water and citric acid followed by some time in the vibrator with walnut hulls seems to clean it pretty well. One of these days I want to try steel pins in a tumbler but I haven't found my roundtuit for that project yet.
    Last edited by RogerDat; 06-19-2017 at 10:03 AM. Reason: sp
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat I do trade a bit from time to time.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    I used to remove berdans by drilling a small hole near the edge with a dremel tool then stick the point of a sharp awl into the hole and pry the primer out. Quick and easy, but I couldn't get enough primers to make it worth doing.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb16 View Post
    I used to remove berdans by drilling a small hole near the edge with a dremel tool then stick the point of a sharp awl into the hole and pry the primer out. Quick and easy, but I couldn't get enough primers to make it worth doing.
    Well I ran the couple hundred through vibrator with some crushed walnut shells (lizard bedding) the ones I checked looked like the tarnish and corrosion was gone. Ran a .32 bore brush down the case to clean the neck. Now I'm going to test fire with primer only. Doing 5 to see what percentage fire. If they all fire I'll try 5 more. If no FTF then I may just finish cleaning and load them. If a lot FTF then they probably become scrap brass. Or I soak in water and citric acid and pop out the primers using one of the excellent suggestions offered in this thread.

    I don't know if I can find Berdan primers, and doubt I even want to mess with having to stock another size of primer for just this batch of brass. $35 worth of Boxer primers loads 1,000 of any caliber with that size primer that I want or need. $35 worth of Berdan only loads this brass and nothing else. I'll find a use for it one way or another. I really hate to see brass get wasted (especially if it tries to drive afterwards).
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat I do trade a bit from time to time.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master


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    Did you ever get any resolution? I'll give you 21 once-fired, Lapua brand 8mms. Send me $7.00, and I'll get it out to you quickly with a small flat rate USPS box. Just reading about all those evolutions made my head hurt.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilwil View Post
    Did you ever get any resolution? I'll give you 21 once-fired, Lapua brand 8mms. Send me $7.00, and I'll get it out to you quickly with a small flat rate USPS box. Just reading about all those evolutions made my head hurt.
    Thanks for the offer but I'm ok on supply of 8mm brass. I have the RCBS form die to make 8mm out of 30-06 and about 3 coffee cans of '06 military head stamp brass to feed it. Plus a couple hundred between loaded & empty cases of commercial brass. I just hate seeing good brass go to waste. A guy at gun show that sells small bags of cast reloads does berdan primed, he said he can sell me a few hundred primers that he will bring to next show. He might even sell me his removal tool since he no longer reloads them often and he uses soapy water and press to pop the primer out.

    I have not managed to get the time to go outback and fire off some empty primed cases as a test! Well the time to fire them I could squeeze in but the time to clean after firing what might be corrosive primers? Just don't have it. Found leak in the camper that I had to fix and got a new puppy, plus yard work went way up since it finally rained.
    Last edited by RogerDat; 07-04-2017 at 10:30 AM.
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat I do trade a bit from time to time.

  14. #34
    PAPERPATCH MASTER


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    This thread reminds that I have about several hundred and maybe more of unfired 8mm cases that I pulled down when I was unsure if they were corrosive primed or not that I find again when looking for something else.Robert

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    I've been converting 8mm brass for some time. Does anyone want to sell them to me? I'm looking for brass cases with a 5.5mm primer (.216"), very close to LR diameter, which is most of the Berdan 8mm. The Yugo cases are excellent for conversion, but Bulgarian and a few others have pockets so deep that reliable ignition is in question. They need a button of sufficient thickness pressed into the pocket so it can be uniformed to the correct depth.
    Last edited by yeahbub; 07-07-2017 at 08:55 PM.

  16. #36
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    I am thinking 30/06 brass new used etc. is very common and 8mm is made simplify from it. I would sell the Berdan as scrap after crushing and convert the 30/06

  17. #37
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    Today, I received 100 pieces of new, unprimed, unfired, Boxer type cases in 8x57 (Mauser). They're made by PPU and sold out of Graf's. PPU also makes 7.5x55 Swiss, ammo and brass. Just a thought.
    Go peacefully; teach the ignorant, comfort the distressed. Always be kind. Wear clean underwear and carry a gun.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManMontgomery View Post
    Today, I received 100 pieces of new, unprimed, unfired, Boxer type cases in 8x57 (Mauser). They're made by PPU and sold out of Graf's. PPU also makes 7.5x55 Swiss, ammo and brass. Just a thought.
    Well yeah if you wanted to do it the easy way...

    At one point I bought 3 bags of commercial just to have them but still like to do what I can to insure a supply of food for the mauser.

    My one issue still to work out for reforming 30-06 is annealing the shoulders of the brass. I plan on doing a lazy susan and pan of water to heat sink the head while I hit the neck and shoulder with a propane torch.
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat I do trade a bit from time to time.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check