3031 and Trapdoor Springfield

[Larry Gibson]

So based on the information provided here. And going back and rechecking the manuals. It looks like other than the overall length, which I have slightly elongated my load should make about 16,850 cup. That should be a perfectly acceptable level for the trapdoor?

At the end of the day (geez how I hate that cliché......) your 40 gr load should be fine in your TD. Lyman lists 41.5 gr IMR3031 under a 525 gr cast at 17,900 CUP.

Larry Gibson

[KenH]

Larry, thank you for your info - and based on your measurements of 18K to 22k psi with BP loads , I would really think 18,000 psi loads would be a good range to keep max loads for any of the old 100+ yr old rifles be it Rolling Blocks or Trapdoor.... not many folks are shooting the original sharps because they're so expensive. While a new trapdoor or Rolling Block might well handle max loads of 28k psi (perhaps even more), an old rifle which has steel not of quite the same quality as these new rifles do - let's just take it easy on them.... and on my shoulder {g}

I personally load 90% of my loads <10K because it will punch a hole in paper just fine, and my damaged shoulders don't complain the next day.

[Larry Gibson]

My most often used load in my M1884 TD is a Rapine 210 HB over 6 gr Bullseye at 1000 fps.......very accurate to 100 yards.

In my H&Rs I most often shoot a 275 gr Rapine over 8 gr bullseye for 1065 fps......very accurate to 500 yards........

Both less than 9,000 psi because neither will give a pressure reading.......

Larry Gibson

[KenH]

Larry, do you use a dacron filler over Bullseye? If so, do you put a cardboard wad between the powder and filler to prevent the powder from mixing with filler during handling?

I use Unique and tilt the barrel up before shooting - I've been thinking of trying a bit of filler over the powder, maybe a cotton ball? OR - should I hunt up some dacron fiber?

Ken H>

[Larry Gibson]

No, no filler or wad is needed with the Bullseye loads using the two bullets mentioned (2 left ones in photo).

Attachment 197266Attachment 197267

I seldom used Unique in the 45-70 any more. I have, in past years, shot quite a few 300 - 410 gr cast bullets over Unique. Like you I had to raise the barrel for consistent accuracy unless a filler was used. Please note I differentiate between a filler and a wad. I do not use a wad. I feel unique is a bit fast burning for use with a filler. I prefer to use 4759, 4227, 4198 and 5744 with a Dacron filler instead, particularly with 350 - 415 gr cast bullets.

A word of caution on the use of cotton balls for a filler; I ruined a very good pair of new sneakers one day at the range having to stomp out two fires the burning cotton balls started in dry grass in front of the firing line. That was many years ago and since then, when I started using Dacron as a filler exclusively, I have not had any problem with the Dacron starting a fire. Dacron (polyester) is easily found. You probably already have lots of it as it is common stuffing in pillows and stuffed toys. There is a thread on the proper use of fillers where I explain when, why and how I use Dacron as a filler.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

The proper use of a filler thread; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...use-of-fillers

Post #2 is my explanation.

Larry Gibson

[KenH]

Fire? Darn good point Larry on the cotton balls - I'd not considered that. I was only thinking of something I had on hand without having to look for anything. Bullseye sounds easier.

I said "wad", but was really thinking of a thin cardboard that solely acts as a spacer between powder and filler. Perhaps I'm over thinking this - is there a problem with powder mixing with dacron filler when bullets are stored bullet down, primer up and handled a good bit?

I've got plenty of Unique, and a sealed can of PB (remember that old powder?) I was planning to use up. I've never been a big fan of Bullseye because it took so little of it. BUT - I was loading .357 mag pistol rounds 99% of time and Unique works good for that. Maybe I'll pick up a lb of Bullseye to try. It would be nice not requiring a filler, nor having to lift barrel before firing.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience.

Ken H>

[KenH]

The proper use of a filler thread; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...use-of-fillers

Post #2 is my explanation.

Larry Gibson

Larry, that thread answered all my questions. You posted that while I was writing up my last post so I missed your link to the thread answering all my questions. With 4759 powder in my 45-70 I use light loads, usually 1,000 fps or so, but have problems getting the ES I wish in loads. I'll get some dacron and try that and see if it doesn't help.... AND some Bullseye for light loads. There really is no reason to use up my hard to get 4759 in 1,000 fps loads when Bullseye will work just as good. That will allow saving 4759 for heavier hunting type loads.

Ken H>

[Larry Gibson]

KenH

I also am hoarding my last few pounds of 4759........I'd be glad to store yours for you......"safe keeping" and all.........

Larry Gibson