Thinking about getting a gunsmithing degree/certificate/???

[williamwaco]

Another issue. I was a rural person for 40 years. I saw lots of guys try it. Some were really good. None could make a living. The problem was that in general., rural people with broken guns can't afford to pay for repairs.

[wonderwolf]

Another issue. I was a rural person for 40 years. I saw lots of guys try it. Some were really good. None could make a living. The problem was that in general., rural people with broken guns can't afford to pay for repairs.

And when a Axis with a 3-9 scope already installed can be had for around $350 at most its hard to justify....

[zymguy]

I applied to the school in CO last year and was looking for a change in career and a direction I could see myself doing well in and being happy with.
I got a call back for a interview and I turned it down even after I had gone through all the work to get to that point, letters of recomedation etc etc.

why?
Couple of reasons that may only make sense to me but I think are still valid to put out there
#1 One law could easily put you out of work (I'll be honest this was my biggest worry of the industry, this was just last year so pre election hype was still very high).
#2 Cost (this one is more personal) , My sister who is a CFP and I sat down and calculated what 2 years of school would run me in another state (being a resident after the first year factored in to "out of state" tuition etc. Would be roughly $38,000 low end.
#3 A lot of guns coming onto the market are not worth customers money to have fixed by a professional, The gunsmithing industry is highly niche...You specialize in 1911's, Long range bench guns or what have you and you might make a run of it.

I think a lot if I made the right choice to not go back to school, I have no debt but I already have a Bachelors degree. I have 10 years of hobby level machining behind me and its getting more complex every year. In the future I may start making products that I've been working on and that won't cost me 2 years away from my girlfriend and a boatload of money but would still be doing something I love.

If I were single....the choice may have gone the other way but there is a lot that goes into a decision like that.


Good luck with your decision!

#1 is a significant concern of mine, I did not articulate it as well as you state it here. I get passed it only by "keeping my day job" which i will be doing.
#2 ill have in state tuition and will stay at my brothers house 4 days a week. I'll be putting 400 miles on my car every week going between my house and my brothers house. This certainly will not be cheap, I hope to take a student loan for 10k or less. Again thats certainly not nothing, but I think a debt i can get out from under fairly quickly when I am done with schol (not nessisarily by gunsmithing, tho)
#3 I'd love to specalize in old stuff but thats just something ill have to find what the market will bear when im compleated.

Thanks for the posts guys !!! keep the advice coming

[lightload]

If the same guys who pay the going rate for lawn mower repair would be willing to pay similar gunsmith rates, then maybe we would have more gunsmiths.

[zymguy]

The program in pine city was so popular thay added a second session last yr, they hope to graduate 28 gunsmiths may 2018.

[LMB]

I graduated from Pine a few years ago. Like any school you get out of it what you put into it. I would highly recommend declaring machining as a second major and signing up for the machining classes and getting them done before getting in real deep in the gunsmithing classes. It will make your life much easier. It doesn't hurt and is not hard to graduate with a machining and gunsmith diploma. You will be attending for 3 years regardless because of the way the classes space out.

It will cost you much more than they say to attend, finding enough project guns gets expensive. The tool list they provide is pretty incomplete so you will be buying more tools than you think and some you do not really need. MSC, Zorro, Brownells, Midway USA, and Amazon will be your friend.

Plan on attending 5 days per week from 8:00 - 4:00 and taking advantage of the open lab times. If you really want to get more projects done go on Saturdays also. The more you do the more you will learn and the better prepared you will be when you open the shop you are dreaming of.

I wish you luck. I enjoyed my 3 years there.

[zymguy]

It will cost you much more than they say to attend, finding enough project guns gets expensive. The tool list they provide is pretty incomplete

Id be very interested in both some kind of gun project list and your tool list, ill ask that you add a reading list to that too .
I know things have changed a bit but the idea of looking for project guns now really appeals.

Thanks
Ben

[Any Cal.]

I found the idea of gunsmithing intriguing, but haven't pursued it. My biggest concerns are the current prices of firearms. As was mentioned, most guns are getting ridiculously cheap. What can you do to them that isn't going to 'total' them out? Say that someone may be interested in putting 1/2 of the original cost into repairs or customization. What can you do for $160-250, when that includes the price of parts and tax as well? Can you do it 40x/wk?

I can see some of the low hanging fruit being profitable, but wonder about how much call there is for much of the old school work anymore. Not much installing sights, drilling for mounts, blueing, etc.

Like I say, I'm somewhat ignorant on the subject, but personal observation is that most people don't want to put lots of money into gun tinkering anymore. It usually costs less to wait a year and buy a short barrel model when it comes out, or a different caliber, or whatever. Fewer reloaders, even fewer good reloaders, so wildcatting is down. ARs and Glocks make Legos seem complicated, and new Tupperware guns are cheap as chips. The older guns that might be worth messing with are either too unappreciated to have a value, or worth too much to chance destroying their value.

Not saying it can't be done, just don't understand exactly how.

[Hooker53]

I would suggest first to enter a Gun school because of your love of firearms. If you get good enough at it, the funds will come but try not to expect from the very first to make enough to buy your own tropical island. Anything can happen but don't expect it.

Roy
Hooker53

[zymguy]

I'm hoping to break even on the schooling, i do not intend to ever leave my day job.

[egg250]

I did it. I took the AGI Master Gunsmithing correspondence course a few years ago, thinking I could make a modest income to supplement my pension. It was a substantial investment and provided very important information about the various firearms designs, systems and problem solving. It also included some entry level training on welding and machining.

I opened my home based business in Oct 2015. If I depended on the shop to earn a living our family would be eating lots of Ramen. As the sole proprietor, on any given day in the shop, I spend about 3 - 4 solid hours working on jobs. The rest of that time is research, answering the phone, ordering parts, customer service, etc. My father is a self employed machinist, near 70 and still working. When he works a job, he can factor in his 10% for waste/mistakes (not that he needs it anymore with his vast experience), if he makes a mistake he can start on a new part. As a gunsmith you might be working on a Savage double barrel shotgun they only made for 4 years, ending production in 1947. Parts just aren't available. If you screw something up you need to be able to make a new part but you have destroyed collector value in the gun. Ask me how I know. I don't have any overhead and, at $40 per hour, I'm not really making money but I'm able to fund a few purchases here and there. I'd like to charge more, maybe next year...

I'm glad that I have done this and don't plan to close my doors anytime soon. My hope is that, as my business experience grows, I will become more efficient and thus more profitable. I am considering restructuring, adding a online store to sell accessories and firearms.

Bottom line, you need a good business model and a good head for business. You won't make much in your first few years. As you try to do firearms sales to supplement your gunsmithing income you'll realize there isn't much markup on firearms. You will want to have a fairly well stocked retail area, selling accessories and such. That is where you will be able to make a living.

[zymguy]

I've emailed my appeal and have every reason to believe they'll quickly take my tuition money.
Time to start gathering tools and books ! Ill include a link that is from the schools website Im hoping anyone willing to click it and read through will have an opinion on whas good and what’ll just be wasting my money. For example I’m pretty sure that Ill go Hazard Fraught brand for the “1 Tool Box, 8 or 11 drawer”
47 days till school starts
http://www.pine.edu/media/pdf/GUNSMI...02017-2018.pdf

[JBinMN]

Best of Luck to ya!

[zymguy]

Well, I did not win my appeal back then. Work got very busy and school was out of priority. Recently I left the brewery and today I attended the orientation class you need to sit through to apply to the gunsmithing program. It is unlikely I’ll be able to get a spot in this falls class so I’m going to take a year of machining while I’m waiting for my spot to open in the gunsmithing program.

[pietro]

.

Keep in mind that even refinishing when another person's entire firearm is involved is a form of gunsmithing, for which an FFL (and all it's attendant responsibilities & requirements that need to be met) will be mandatory under Federal Law.

IMO, the chances of a decent income are better if you become a qualified machinist with a shop.


.

[zymguy]

I will be getting both degrees, I agree there is more security in the machining degree


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[Ed K]

In my experience most of the best specialty gunsmiths are machinists first - read "specialty" as also profitable. Now if being a true general purpose gunsmith is of the highest priority you can ignore my comments. However this thread pretty much proves out that trying to be competitive on business relating to black composite firearms, making internal parts on 75 year old classics, fixing bubba'd firearms and stopping to mount a scope "right now" for a walk-in customer all at the same time is going to be really tough while working anything less than a crazy amount of hours per week and still pay the bills. Now getting that primary machinist training and finding your niche while hobby gunsmithing or part-time 'smithing (short term) seems to be a common theme among those who transition and develop a name as someone well-known to build accurate rifles, custom revolvers, etc.

[zymguy]

I will start my first day of classes Monday. Only one class ( metallurgy) relates to gunsmithing, but I’ll be happy to have started.

[Scrounge]

I will start my first day of classes Monday. Only one class ( metallurgy) relates to gunsmithing, but I’ll be happy to have started.

Too cool! I've been taking a machining class on a very part time basis for closing on 6 years now. Good luck, and have a great time in your classes!

[Green Frog]

15 years ago (when I retired from teaching high school science) I took 3-4 machine shop classes at my local community college(they don’t offer gunsmithing per se.) Then I got busy with other things and drifted away from it, though I have a lathe and small mill in my basement. I’ve been “going to get back to it” for about 14 years now. Maybe if I start doing some simple machining again it will inspire me to do some gun work...

Froggie