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Thread: Thinking about getting a gunsmithing degree/certificate/???

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    When someone ask me about becoming a gunsmith the first thought is " don't quit your day job". While I have been able to keep the bills paid I'm not getting rich and I don't have much overhead. A lot of the tooling I had before I went into gunsmithing full time. Probably have $15,000 tied up in chamber reamers but that was spread out over 20 years. Schooling will teach you the basics but getting experience takes time. I was sort of lucky, having a background of mechanic welder and machinist before I had to make a living as a gunsmith.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    I know a guy six years younger than me. By the time he was about to finish high school I had been working as a machinist almost 6 years.
    I had messed with my own guns a lot and he was interested in being a gunsmith. I told him he would never be happy with the money that a gunsmith makes. If he got a college degree in something that paid well he could afford to shoot instead of working on other's guns. He worked one summer with me in a shop and then worked as a lab technician. He even built storm drains on a new interstate highway one summer in Texas. He got an accounting degree and became a CPA. He is now probably a millionaire.
    EDG

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Handloader109's Avatar
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    If it were me, I'd go a bit different direction. There are a lot of folks wanting cerakoting done on their guns. You do need GOOD sprayer, compressor and an oven, and a bunch of not cheap coatings. past that it's time and experience. And appears to be decent money in it.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    I'm a brewer in a location most only vacation or retire to. I'm hoping i can gunsmith in the winter months (bout 7 of them around here) and brew in the summer. Ive got a fair bit of education but have always chosen to live where i want to over making allotof money. At 35 the typical 2.5 kids and a white picket fence has proven NOT a priority. I dont expect to get wealthy , I hope to take on new challenges and meet a new network of people. Brew part time Smith part time and marry a VERY wealthy girl and i should be able to retire about noon the day before i die =)

  5. #25
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post
    When someone ask me about becoming a gunsmith the first thought is " don't quit your day job". While I have been able to keep the bills paid I'm not getting rich and I don't have much overhead. A lot of the tooling I had before I went into gunsmithing full time. Probably have $15,000 tied up in chamber reamers but that was spread out over 20 years. Schooling will teach you the basics but getting experience takes time. I was sort of lucky, having a background of mechanic welder and machinist before I had to make a living as a gunsmith.
    What do you fing to be the limmiting factor for profit ? Lack of work? Lack of time? Too much tax/utilitys/insurance/etc. ?

  6. #26
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handloader109 View Post
    If it were me, I'd go a bit different direction. There are a lot of folks wanting cerakoting done on their guns. You do need GOOD sprayer, compressor and an oven, and a bunch of not cheap coatings. past that it's time and experience. And appears to be decent money in it.
    thats an interesting idea, but i fear just doing coatings would quickly turn into a chore

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    When I was going to CST, one of the instructors said the ideal situation would be to buy 4 corner lots on a busy intersection. Then build a bar on one corner, a brothel, on the second, a casino on the third corner, and your gunsmithing shop on the last corner. The profits from the other three businesses would allow you to live while you enjoyed doing gunsmithing. The main drawback to doing well is getting good enough and fast enough to make good wages. Many jobs that come in will cost more in time than the guns are worth or will require parts that are hard or impossible to acquire.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    lol thats a good one ! guess in a way im 1/3 there then =) you wouldnt take the jobs you KNOW are losses even before you start...right?

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by zymguy View Post
    What do you fing to be the limmiting factor for profit ? Lack of work? Lack of time? Too much tax/utilitys/insurance/etc. ?
    Tough questions. I have always had plenty of work, lack of energy may be part of the problem. Five days a week seems to be plenty of time but then keeping up on the paper work takes it toll also. I'm an unpaid state tax collector ( sales tax). Property tax is about $300 a month here. Utilities about $200/ month. I only have property insurance. Found out if you have liability insurance it is easier to get sued, without it most lawyers will not take on a case because they know they will not get paid. According to the finance company I need to keep working til I'm 93.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master

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    A fellow gunsmith told me how to make a million as a gunsmith, he said start with five million. I guess I was a little well off when I started, I loved machine work enough that I bought a lathe and mill way before I had to make a living as a gun smith. Now I have three lathes and two mills, only bought one of each after I started my business. I work mostly on old guns and make the parts that I can't buy. Being able to thread a barrel is nothing when you have to make a #1-72 screw to fit in an old Winchester model 12. Try cutting threads when you have to hold a magnifying glass with one hand. The first one fell in the chip pan and I just started on another one. A customer was watching and asked why I didn't look for it, I got a good laugh. Try to find a screw that is 1/8" long and 1/16" diameter among all the chips. Shop rate is $120 per hour but I never charge that much. If I charged for every minute like a lawyer I would probably be retired by now. Several years ago I installed a high $ target barrel on a target rifle for another shop and charged $180 for the work (Parts were supplied). When the customer came in to pick it up and was told it would be $180 he said "that can't be good". When ask what the problem was he said that the last time he had a barrel installed on his action it cost $1800. I have wondered how a shop can charge that much for a couple hours work.

  11. #31
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Handloader109 View Post
    If it were me, I'd go a bit different direction. There are a lot of folks wanting cerakoting done on their guns. You do need GOOD sprayer, compressor and an oven, and a bunch of not cheap coatings. past that it's time and experience. And appears to be decent money in it.

    This is a pretty good suggestion, along with bluing. Better to specialize, than to try and be all things to all people.

    No matter what hobby you turn in to a job, it becomes exactly that, a job.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  12. #32
    Boolit Master Handloader109's Avatar
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    Well, if you look at some of the guns (mainly those Evil black ones) that some of these guys coat, I don't think you could get bored with the variety. A lot of disassembly and reassembly. A number of old guns that need a bit of work and they want a solid coating that is better than blueing. There is one pretty new guy close to me ND a friend trying it as a PT job. Good money in it and you can do other things besides guns. One guy did a Jeep interior the other day. And I guarantee it wasn't a $50 job that was grumbled about. I'd almost start it if I had the equipment. Just saying..

  13. #33
    Boolit Master Handloader109's Avatar
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    Just some random pics I grabbed off a Facebook group for coaters. They Even saved a rusted 1911. Id have done a bit different color scheme, but it works. Ton of different types of work.

    Just sayin'. And it seems if you are good, you have a decent rep and folks will ship you work pretty steadily. Would help being in a rural area.

    Oh, and I love repetitive work. Time flies and if you are oriced well, money does too!

  14. #34
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Along with the other finishes, there is also a great demand for color case hardening. Just going into the finishing end of the business may feed you better than trying to be a full spectrum gunsmith.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  15. #35
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Ok im giving the finishing aspect more thought. If so many of you see a market, there is one. I guess one advantage of the course is to get to try my hand at it and see if i enjoy it.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    This is a pretty good suggestion, along with bluing. Better to specialize, than to try and be all things to all people.

    No matter what hobby you turn in to a job, it becomes exactly that, a job.
    Respectfully, thats the least of my worries, Im sure its true for some but, I have been warned it will hapen to my career for nearly a decade.
    I still love brewing !

  17. #37
    Boolit Master beezapilot's Avatar
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    I visited some high end gun shops in the last year, the Connecticut Shotgun Company was by far and away the most impressive place that I've been in quite some time.
    https://www.connecticutshotgun.com/
    They do a lot of work in house, and are most always hiring specialty guys- inlay, checker, engravers. Good pay and benefits, someone else worries about the liability insurance and keeps the lights on. Specializing in something will most always have a market....
    The essence of education is self reliance- T.H. White.

    Currently seeking wood carving tools, wood planes, froes, scorps, spokeshaves... etc....

  18. #38
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    well i filled out the fedral financal aid form today , now ill go looking for a private school loan. Im not to sure where to start?
    Cheers
    Ben

  19. #39
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    These threads are always interesting to read, and there is always a lot of good advice. I was a general gunsmith for 30 years, and my replies tend to run on way too long, so I'll limit myself to a few observations. I attended the Colorado School of Trades in 1981-82. At the time it was a one year course. What made it different than most is that it was like a job. You had a choice of day or swing shift, and showed up for 8 1/2 hours daily (1/2 hour lunch) 5 days per week. It started with the Pseudo Dept. where the use of basic hand tools was taught through the completion of various projects, and where one learned polishing and bluing. Then it was into the Welding Dept. where oxy-acetylene welding, silver soldering, and brazing were taught. Then into the Stockmaking Dept. where the minimum requirement was one stock from a blank and two from semi-inlets. Next was the Machine Shop where one got a very good grounding on the lathe. Then into the Design & Function Dept. where one learned much about general repair work and used the skills previous learned as the repairs could consist of refinishing, restocking, re-barreling, parts fitting---you name it. It was a very good school, and I'm glad I attended, but my information on the school is now 35 years obsolete. If you contact them they'll be happy to send you information all about their program. When I attended one got a certificate of completion, but now you can get an AS in Industrial Arts.

    GhostHawk is very right about the need to have insurance. Also correct are those who warn about the quantity and expense of tools and tooling. It is kind of a "nickel and dime you to death" occupation in that if you are a general gunsmith there is always a job walking in the door that you've never done before, and invariably a new tool is called for. Finding your niche is important. Although I did general repairs and to some extent custom work, I stayed away from engraving and checkering. Probably 80% of my business was rebluing, and I was good at it and "the only game in town." But today's gun fans are getting away from bluing and the various coatings are becoming increasingly popular, so there is truth in that advice also. Probably the most successful smiths today are those who specialize in areas like custom 1911 building, AR-15 building, etc. Hard to break into these areas because they are already so well occupied and the business goes to those who have established a "name", but it can be done. One thing for certain, once word gets around that you do good work you'll usually have more business than you can handle and probably become backlogged. On the other hand, substandard work will kill your business off pretty quickly. Good luck to you if you decide to follow this path.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master wonderwolf's Avatar
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    I applied to the school in CO last year and was looking for a change in career and a direction I could see myself doing well in and being happy with.
    I got a call back for a interview and I turned it down even after I had gone through all the work to get to that point, letters of recomedation etc etc.

    why?
    Couple of reasons that may only make sense to me but I think are still valid to put out there
    #1 One law could easily put you out of work (I'll be honest this was my biggest worry of the industry, this was just last year so pre election hype was still very high).
    #2 Cost (this one is more personal) , My sister who is a CFP and I sat down and calculated what 2 years of school would run me in another state (being a resident after the first year factored in to "out of state" tuition etc. Would be roughly $38,000 low end.
    #3 A lot of guns coming onto the market are not worth customers money to have fixed by a professional, The gunsmithing industry is highly niche...You specialize in 1911's, Long range bench guns or what have you and you might make a run of it.

    I think a lot if I made the right choice to not go back to school, I have no debt but I already have a Bachelors degree. I have 10 years of hobby level machining behind me and its getting more complex every year. In the future I may start making products that I've been working on and that won't cost me 2 years away from my girlfriend and a boatload of money but would still be doing something I love.

    If I were single....the choice may have gone the other way but there is a lot that goes into a decision like that.


    Good luck with your decision!
    My firearms project blog

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