Question on HBWCs

[Drm50]

I'm not new to bullet casting I have over 100 molds and been casting for 55yrs+. I just got my 1st HBWC mold today. The mold is a old Lyman 38 cal mold. I have 3
other 38 WC molds. My question is: how do you size these bullets. Do they allow you
to size them conventional way, without distorting the base? After looking at mold I
thought I wold have to turn me a special top punch to size bullet nose first.

[BK7saum]

I have a HBWC mold I haven't used yet. I plan to load as cast after a coat of johnson paste wax, 45/45/10 or Bens liquid lube.

[tazman]

I use a Lee push through and size them base first.
I don't own that Lyman mold but did until recently own the NOE version.

[Drm50]

I'm primarily going to use these in a 52 S&W, so they will have to be to spec to run through auto.
Not as forgiving as using them in a revolver. I will be casting these a little on the soft side they are
only going to be loaded at 600-700fps.

[pergoman]

I powder coat mine from the MP HBWC mold and then push them through a Star sizer, hollow base first. Lube smoke from my 52-2 indoors bothers my lungs so I PC.

[dragon813gt]

They size like any other bullet. I run mine either through a LAM1 or NOE bushing when using BLL.

[69daytona]

I have the MP brass mold that I use for my 52-2, I have a star sizer and have tried base and nose sizing, base first works better for me as any flash is on top and easy to trim off.
I cast mine with a BHN of 10-11 works real good at normal hbwc loads but have tried 4-4.2 gr bullseye and 231 and just as accurate and affected by the wind a little less. Could use a little stronger recoil spring if I was shooting the 4gr and higher all the time.

[Drm50]

This HBWC and loading for a 52 is new to me. I had a new 52 back in early 70s, but shot nothing
but factory WCs in it. Really didn't shoot it that much at the time was into 22 Target Autos and
probably less than 1000 rds went through it. Just got the 52 last weekend, shoot a few of my K38
loads but felt they were a little stiff for 52. Have just ordered Wolf spring kit for it. Gun has been
shot very little and I don't want to chance damaging it through ignorance.

[beagle]

By adjusting the stop on the sizer, you can usually size and lube in the conventional manner. Wipe any occasional "extra" with a Q tip. For best results load to normal speeds and don't try to hot rod HB bullets./beagle

[MT Gianni]

I lubed with Felix and sized base first. Casting them dead soft with dental lead worked the best for me.

[Paper Puncher]

What beagle said " For best results load to normal speeds and don't try to hot rod HB bullets." If you try to push them to fast you can separate them. If your lucky you will see two holes in the target. One from the forward portion and one from the base. If your not so lucky the base will still be in the gun when the next round goes bang.

[Drm50]

Why would you want to hot rod HBWCs in a 52 S&W? That don't even make sense, you would be
defeating the whole purpose of the project. You would normally adjust the stop for any bullet
you were going to size, that has nothing to do with the possible crushing of HB portion of the
WC if you place the bullet it the die nose up, as normal. What I wanted to know was the best way
to size HBWCs in a standard sizing press, because I never did it before.

[David2011]

Probably nothing new here but I like shooting HBWC (or FBWCs) so had to pipe in. When I was introduced to casting a few decades back that was the end of swaged HBWCs for me. Sounds like you need the brass to be as big as possible, controlled by the flaring or M die so it won't squeeze the HBWC down. Minimal taper crimp. Other than that, what MT Gianni said. Felix lube, base first, pure lead like the commercial swaged HBWCs. --Or maybe this is a good place for tumble lube as long as they're all set base down to dry. I'm not a tumble luber myself but it does seem appropriate for the HBWC.

[dubber123]

One plus I could see to sizing with the skirt down, would be with proper adjustment, you could lightly crush squeeze the bottom of the skirt consistently against the plug in the center of the size die. Doing so would assure that the base of the skirt was a true 90 degrees to the sides of the boolit. Veral Smith promotes bump sizing boolits this way for just that reason. If your mold is cut perfectly, you may not notice, but if the holes weren't bored straight from the mold tops, it does matter, as your boolits essentially have out of square bases as cast.

I read about this years ago, and as a habit give all my castings a fair press against the size die center pin. It's pretty rare, but I HAVE seen molds where the imprint around the perimeter of the boolit was wider on one side than the other, indicating it was out of square. It makes a difference in group size. Just a thought.

[Forrest r]

Shot a lot of wc's/hbwc's over the decades, I'm sure others here have also. These are the bullets I cast/shot.
[IMG][/IMG]

left: h&g 41 110gr wc
2nd left: h&g #50 148gr bbwc
3rd left: Mihec 148gr hbwc
right: Lyman 358395 148gr hbwc

As you can see the lyman hbwc has a thicker base then the Mihec hbwc. I have no problem sizing/lubing either of those hbwc's in my lyman 450 sizer using traditional lubes. I've also used a lee push thru sizer and 45/45/10 tumble lube to size/lube them. I've also powder coated them and sized them in a lee push thru sizer.

Actually you're over thinking this. I use nothing more than range scrap (8bhn/9bhn) and water drop the cast hbwc's. I water drop them because it's easier to damage the hollow base while casting then it is when sizing them. The water dropped/hardened hbwc's shot just as well or better then the air cooled hbwc's.

I don't shoot the wc's/hbwc's as much as I used to so I ended up thinning the herd and sold the h& g #41/#50 & the lyman mold to casters here on castboolets. Glad to see they are being used. I still cast/shoot the Mihec 148gr hbwc.
[IMG][/IMG]

I like that hbwc/am select combo. It's extremely soft shooting and has excellent case volume taking position sensitivity out of play. A typical target load using the bullseye/148gr hbwc/38spl brass is:
bullseye ='s 2.7gr/14.600psi
am select ='s 3.0gr/13,600psi
That 3.0gr load of am select has 30% more case volume than the 2.7gr bullseye load. Has less pressure and actually a little more velocity.

You'd be better off worry about casting excellent quality bullets and water dropping them to protect the base of them. The harder bullets have no problem being sized/lubed. The harder hb makes loading them easier and less likely to swage them down/smaller in the loading process. And the hollow base still functions as it should when you hit the loud button.

[Drm50]

Shot a lot of wc's/hbwc's over the decades, I'm sure others here have also. These are the bullets I cast/shot.
[IMG][/IMG]

left: h&g 41 110gr wc
2nd left: h&g #50 148gr bbwc
3rd left: Mihec 148gr hbwc
right: Lyman 358395 148gr hbwc

As you can see the lyman hbwc has a thicker base then the Mihec hbwc. I have no problem sizing/lubing either of those hbwc's in my lyman 450 sizer using traditional lubes. I've also used a lee push thru sizer and 45/45/10 tumble lube to size/lube them. I've also powder coated them and sized them in a lee push thru sizer.

Actually you're over thinking this. I use nothing more than range scrap (8bhn/9bhn) and water drop the cast hbwc's. I water drop them because it's easier to damage the hollow base while casting then it is when sizing them. The water dropped/hardened hbwc's shot just as well or better then the air cooled hbwc's.

I don't shoot the wc's/hbwc's as much as I used to so I ended up thinning the herd and sold the h& g #41/#50 & the lyman mold to casters here on castboolets. Glad to see they are being used. I still cast/shoot the Mihec 148gr hbwc.
[IMG][/IMG]

I like that hbwc/am select combo. It's extremely soft shooting and has excellent case volume taking position sensitivity out of play. A typical target load using the bullseye/148gr hbwc/38spl brass is:
bullseye ='s 2.7gr/14.600psi
am select ='s 3.0gr/13,600psi
That 3.0gr load of am select has 30% more case volume than the 2.7gr bullseye load. Has less pressure and actually a little more velocity.

You'd be better off worry about casting excellent quality bullets and water dropping them to protect the base of them. The harder bullets have no problem being sized/lubed. The harder hb makes loading them easier and less likely to swage them down/smaller in the loading process. And the hollow base still functions as it should when you hit the loud button.

Thanks for the information. Will try the water drop on them.

[country gent]

I would try a push thru die and a pusher with as close a shape to match the hollow bases shape as possible. This way when sizing the bullet is sized down completely not partially and the base collapsed. You could duplicate the hollow base pin or get the form with epoxy from a bullet and then turn up the punch. Otherwise the base will be collapsed in when sizing.

[country gent]

I have the opposite of your pistol. 1911 in 38 spl a lock up version. Very accurate reliable and fun to put thru its paces. Mines a 6" barsto barrel. Mine has very few issues with feeding or function. Unless you bullets are way big or over sized they should work as cast. My Load is 2.7 grns bullseye with a hornady or star 148 grn hb wadcutter.

[Drm50]

I would try a push thru die and a pusher with as close a shape to match the hollow bases shape as possible. This way when sizing the bullet is sized down completely not partially and the base collapsed. You could duplicate the hollow base pin or get the form with epoxy from a bullet and then turn up the punch. Otherwise the base will be collapsed in when sizing.

This is about what I was thinking, I was going to turn a top punch- contoured to HB and size nose
down. If necessary, never did HBWCs before. The last 30yrs have been into S&W revolvers only
have two CF autos, the 52 and a Brn HP Comp - both target guns. I'm going to try the HBWC in
the 9mm also if I have room for OAL of cartridge.

[beagle]

Good question but there is some guy out there that will try and push even a M52, Gold Cup Midrange or one of the more delicate custom centerfire autos. Had a shooting partner that did it so it is being done. If you want to go that way, find a Coonan and have at it. I ran many thousands of PB WCs with 2.7 grains of Bullseye in my Midrange Match and a friend's M52 and had no problems.

I messed with HB bullets in both the .38 Special/.357 Magnum and .44 Special/.44 Magnum and there's noting to be gained./beagle

Why would you want to hot rod HBWCs in a 52 S&W? That don't even make sense, you would be
defeating the whole purpose of the project. You would normally adjust the stop for any bullet
you were going to size, that has nothing to do with the possible crushing of HB portion of the
WC if you place the bullet it the die nose up, as normal. What I wanted to know was the best way
to size HBWCs in a standard sizing press, because I never did it before.