M1 Garand issues from hell

[AggiePharmD]

So I've been on again off again trying to figure out cast in one of my Garands. I'm to the point of giving up cause I'm tired of scraping lead. What am I doing wrong or what haven't I tried that might work.

I've tried commercial cast 311299 sized to 0.311 with severe leading. I've tried self cast 311299 COWW sized to 0.3105 in my Lee sizer with TAC X lube and I just tried today powder coating with no luck. Leading on the last two options was less but still present.

I will admit that my PC was a bit flaky so that might have been my issue this time out.

The only thing I haven't tried is sizing to 0.309 OR trying a different rifle.

My load is IMR 4895 at 33 gr with about 3/4 grains of dacron filler. If I continue I plan to up the charge to 34 or 35 with the filler.

Can anyone that has been successful shooting cast in a Garand help me out please? I honestly thought PC was the answer as it seems to have worked in my M1 Carbine.

[15meter]

I've had good luck with 311284 sized to .310 in 6 different M1's, multiple different commercial lubes, multiple different powders, currently using H4895, a little heavier load than you are. All mine were gas checked though.

I have never used any kind of filler in any loads, guess I have read to many horror stories of ringed chambers with fillers. Total round count is in the several thousand and have never had leading.

In the Carbine I shoot a fairly hard cast bullet bevel/plain based sized .310 and what ever commercial (Saeco/Lyman/RCBS) lube is in the sizer. Never had leading issues.

Are you using gas checks?

[GrayTech]

Never had leading with PC. Also wondering about gas checks.
Try PC again, but follow the baking instructions carefully (time and temp requirements vary with type of PC). Flaky PC is no good for rifle velocities.


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[Scharfschuetze]

It sounds like you are doing just about what I do for the M1 Garand: Air cooled Lyman 311299 or 311344 from a Linotype or Lyman #2 alloy. Alox lube, copper gas checks, sized to .310" all over 36 grains of a non canister 4895. I've never had an issue with this formula and the velocity of 1,800 to 1,850 is right at the sweet spot for a 1 in 10" twist barrel. Good accuracy, full function and no leading has been the hallmark of what is generally a pretty standard cast bullet load for the M1 Garand.

You've tried oversize bullets and powder coating so I wonder if your barrel has an issue that's stripping lead from the bullets. Also, are you expanding your case neck internal diameter to at least .307" or .308." If you are using the standard expanding ball that comes with most dies, you may only be expanding to .305" or so and thus your neck tension may be defeating your best efforts at a .310" or larger sizing. Just a guess.

One question: Is the leading at the throat, near the muzzle and the gas cylinder or along the length of the barrel?

[Ford SD]

So I've been on again off again trying to figure out cast in one of my Garands. I'm to the point of giving up cause I'm tired of scraping lead. What am I doing wrong or what haven't I tried that might work.

I've tried commercial cast 311299 sized to 0.311 with severe leading. I've tried self cast 311299 COWW sized to 0.3105 in my Lee sizer with TAC X lube and I just tried today powder coating with no luck. Leading on the last two options was less but still present.

I will admit that my PC was a bit flaky so that might have been my issue this time out.

The only thing I haven't tried is sizing to 0.309 OR trying a different rifle.

My load is IMR 4895 at 33 gr with about 3/4 grains of dacron filler. If I continue I plan to up the charge to 34 or 35 with the filler.

Can anyone that has been successful shooting cast in a Garand help me out please? I honestly thought PC was the answer as it seems to have worked in my M1 Carbine.

I think you are pushing it too fast

you have to use a gas check for rifle rounds

Instead of going Faster --- how about going slower

try 28g or so of 4895 and work up to app 32g

are you ac or water dropping ?

if you have a barrel on the large size .310 might be too small

if it is too slow / not enough powder it will not pick up next round or not eject
a bit of dacron will speed it up a bit and lower es/sd
slower = less likley to lead the barrel

work up till groups open up -- then back it down to where you got your best groups

[Hick]

I find with my Garand that I have to stay at or below about 1900 fps to avoid problems. Could you be pushing too fast? My max load is 34 grains of IMR4064 behind a lee C309-200, sized to 0.309, gas checked, and lubed (1900 fps). With this or slower I see no leading after over 100 rounds. Some sources say that you should not go over about 140,000 rpm with lead alloys, and in a 1:10" twist this happens at 1940 fps.

[fatelvis]

Make sure your case neck isn't sizing your boolit down when you're seating it. .311" boolit over that powder charge shouldnt be leading the bore.

[RU shooter]

Need some more info . Where's the leading at in the barrel ? You using gas checks?

[AggiePharmD]

So I've been on again off again trying to figure out cast in one of my Garands. I'm to the point of giving up cause I'm tired of scraping lead. What am I doing wrong or what haven't I tried that might work.

I've tried commercial cast 311299 sized to 0.311 with severe leading. I've tried self cast 311299 COWW sized to 0.3105 in my Lee sizer with TAC X lube and I just tried today powder coating with no luck. Leading on the last two options was less but still present.

I will admit that my PC was a bit flaky so that might have been my issue this time out.

The only thing I haven't tried is sizing to 0.309 OR trying a different rifle.

My load is IMR 4895 at 33 gr with about 3/4 grains of dacron filler. If I continue I plan to up the charge to 34 or 35 with the filler.

Can anyone that has been successful shooting cast in a Garand help me out please? I honestly thought PC was the answer as it seems to have worked in my M1 Carbine.

Sorry guys I always forget some important info.

Gas checks: YES
Crimp:just enough to close the flare
Leading location: muzzle end of gas cylinder, muzzle of barrel (the best I can tell none in length of barrel) , gas lock threads, gas screw (where you normally scrap carbon buildup.)
Neck expansion: used a Lyman M-die at 0.311. *I have a NOE expander plug at 0.312x0.308 I can use next.*
Alloy:COWW air cooled

I can see no readily apparent nick or burrs at the muzzle nor did I notice leading at the throat BUT I will double check the throat tonight.

[AggiePharmD]

So it looks like I have four to five more variables I can adjust. This really gets my science based mind working hard in the mornings.

In no particular order:

Size to 0.309
0.312x0.308 expander plug-crimp to close flare only
Water quench boolits
Redo PC test
different rifle

Then you have these in too many combinations.

[Larry Gibson]

Agree with Ford D..........you are pushing too fast, especially with the Dacron filler. Start at 28 gr and work up to 32 gr in 1 gr increments. Scharfschuetze doesn't use a Dacron filler which is why his load does well with several more gr of 4895. The Dacron filler is the difference. I prefer to use the filler.

"Leading location: muzzle end of gas cylinder, muzzle of barrel (the best I can tell none in length of barrel) , gas lock threads, gas screw (where you normally scrap carbon buildup.)"

Classic indication your lube is depleting itself in the barrel and isn't doing it's function toward the end. I'd suggest a change to White Label (Lar's) 50/50 or 2500+ lube. Or try a coat of LLA o your bullets after sizing and lubing with TAC X. Not too heavy a coat and let it dry thoroughly.

A .31 M die is correct.

Larry Gibson

[AggiePharmD]

Agree with Ford D..........you are pushing too fast, especially with the Dacron filler. Start at 28 gr and work up to 32 gr in 1 gr increments. Scharfschuetze doesn't use a Dacron filler which is why his load does well with several more gr of 4895. The Dacron filler is the difference. I prefer to use the filler.

"Leading location: muzzle end of gas cylinder, muzzle of barrel (the best I can tell none in length of barrel) , gas lock threads, gas screw (where you normally scrap carbon buildup.)"

Classic indication your lube is depleting itself in the barrel and isn't doing it's function toward the end. I'd suggest a change to White Label (Lar's) 50/50 or 2500+ lube. Or try a coat of LLA o your bullets after sizing and lubing with TAC X. Not too heavy a coat and let it dry thoroughly.

A .31 M die is correct.

Larry Gibson

Thanks guys. Larry I again forgot some info. The last batch of uncoated boolits I used had TACX AND Ben's liquid lube which had reduced leading.

So should I continue with .3105 sized air cooled COWW boolits, use either a different lube or the combo I mentioned above in this post but start over with reducing loads from 28-32 and the dacron?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

What does are your bore/groove measurements?


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[AggiePharmD]

What does are your bore/groove measurements?


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0.309

[Soundguy]

I've had good luck with about 15-16 BHN and gas checks for low to mid range rifle.

[Adam Helmer]

Aggie,

You say you are having problems "with one of my Garands." What works in your other Garands? What are you using for boolit metal and are you water quenching?

I have several Garands and all like my wheelweights and a dash of tin dropped from the mould to a bucket of water. I size .309", use IMR4895 and a gas check with Alox lube. My best cast boolit is the Lee 312, 185RN.

Adam

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks guys. Larry I again forgot some info. The last batch of uncoated boolits I used had TACX AND Ben's liquid lube which had reduced leading.

So should I continue with .3105 sized air cooled COWW boolits, use either a different lube or the combo I mentioned above in this post but start over with reducing loads from 28-32 and the dacron?

That's correct. Just a suggestion would be to add 2% tin to your COWWs. It does improve the alloy, increases the BHN and will cast better quality bullets.

Larry Gibson

[dogmower]

I use a lyman 314299 sized to .311 (my bore is a bit worn), pc, over 25 grains imr 4895. no leading at all. when you get bad leading with a gas check, think that the boolit is sized too small. had a similar problem in a Winchester big bore 94 (.375 Winchester). even a thousandth or so can make a big difference.
also, I don't think you need a filler in that load. don't know if it would contribute to leading, but I know I don't use one in mine, and it shoots fine.

[AggiePharmD]

Aggie,

You say you are having problems "with one of my Garands." What works in your other Garands? What are you using for boolit metal and are you water quenching?

I have several Garands and all like my wheelweights and a dash of tin dropped from the mould to a bucket of water. I size .309", use IMR4895 and a gas check with Alox lube. My best cast boolit is the Lee 312, 185RN.

Adam

I haven't tried any of my others yet. Honestly I'm using a rack grade CMP winchester until I can get a load worked out. I too have the Lee boolit you speak of but haven't tried it yet. It seems I have much more work to do in order to get where I need to go.

What is you COAL with the Lee 312-185?

[fatelvis]

I use a lyman 314299 sized to .311 (my bore is a bit worn), pc, over 25 grains imr 4895.

Dogmower, is that load operating your action?