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Thread: Lee 170gr FN PP for Mosin

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Lee 170gr FN PP for Mosin

    I would like to try PP this Boolit for the Mosin. I have IMR 3031 on hand and a Lyman #4 Cast manual in the mail, however I have the sneaking suspicion that this Boolit may not be in the listings. Can anyone confirm this? If so does any have a load they would be willing to share or have a resource they could point me towards? I would like to get north of 2000fps so I can do some longer range shooting (200-300yds) without having to adjust sights all over the place too much (and I'm curious to see how fast I can go!). Bore slugs at .312 and I have already patched some Boolits to about .314. Will be using a WW alloy, if that matters.

    Thanks for the help!

  2. #2
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    ShooterAZ's Avatar
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    That particular boolit is not listed in the Lyman #4, and neither is IMR 3031 powder. However, with paper patching we are advised to start with the minimum jacketed load listing for a given weight and work up. Slower powders work the best for patching, W760, IMR4831, RL22 and similar. Patch them tight and use a good lube. Good luck!
    Last edited by ShooterAZ; 05-31-2017 at 09:59 AM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterAZ View Post
    That particular boolit is not listed in the Lyman #4, and neither is IMR 3031 powder. However, with paper patching we are advised to start with the minimum jacketed load listing for a given weight and work up. Slower powders work the best for patching, W760, IMR4831, RL22 and similar. Patch them tight and use a good lube. Good luck!
    Thank you! Very helpful.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    In the older Ideal/Lyman load books, they say to use any 30-06 cast bullet loads in the 7.62x54
    Russian rifles. Also 303 Savage uses 30-30 load data. The cast loads are pretty mild, and 28 grs
    of 3031 will put you at about 1950 fps.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Compare some cast load data from a 7.62x51 (.308) and the 7.62x54r, they are almost identical on the starting end. Max pressure with jacketed bullets is of course higher for .308.. Might give you some starting data through extrapolation for cast bullets.

  6. #6
    Boolit Man
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    Ok, dies and such finally came in. Got a batch together with a minimum charge of IMR 3031 (40grs) over the aforementioned PP lee 170gr .309 Boolits. Used a bit of vaseline to lube them so they went nicely into the cases. Couldn't hit a 2'x2' target at 25yds. Awful leading. What did I do wrong? I'm wondering if the vaseline compromised the onion skin patch?

    Thanks for your help!

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Possible causes:

    Crimping after seating bullet
    Patch not touching rifling
    Excessive sizing down of bullet after patching

    My apologies in advance for not reading back through the thread. I am tired and on my way to bed. Night all.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    IMR 3031 94.7 48.2 3.12 2831 100.0 53000 9891 1.029 ! Near Maximum !

    Was what I found in my notes. I make no claims about this being a safe load.
    Nor indeed what any given set of numbers might mean. Use at your own risk, use safe reloading practices, start low and work up.

    Best of luck.

  9. #9
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by grullaguy View Post
    Possible causes:

    Crimping after seating bullet
    Patch not touching rifling
    Excessive sizing down of bullet after patching

    My apologies in advance for not reading back through the thread. I am tired and on my way to bed. Night all.
    Thanks for the reply.
    I used a crimping die, but only to take out the flare, not to put an honest to goodness crimp on. I guess next time I won't use it at all but I'd be surprised if that was it. Some of the patches on Boolits were a little deformed, so I think they're making contact with the rifling but I should double check that. I don't size bullets after patching them, so that shouldn't be an issue.

    I guess I'll just make another batch with all that in mind and see what happens.

    Oh, has anyone had experience with lube maybe compromising the patch?

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirtythirty View Post
    Thanks for the reply.
    I used a crimping die, but only to take out the flare, not to put an honest to goodness crimp on. I guess next time I won't use it at all but I'd be surprised if that was it. Some of the patches on Boolits were a little deformed, so I think they're making contact with the rifling but I should double check that. I don't size bullets after patching them, so that shouldn't be an issue.

    I guess I'll just make another batch with all that in mind and see what happens.

    Oh, has anyone had experience with lube maybe compromising the patch?
    In my rifles, I hand seat the sized pp bullet into the fired/unsized case by hand. I do chamfer the neck if I think the patch may hang up. No need to bell.

    Having the bullet fill the throat is desirable, so a bullet that fits into a fired/expanded case snug, will also be close to perfect for the throat. If using a compressible filler, there is the added benefit of seating the bullet out of the case, so that it can meet the rifling and then be seated the final bit when the bolt is closed. Any number of lubes work, but it is a bit of a knack to figure how much to put on for the best results. I use some old Aerowax that I originally got for waxing the limbs on my recurve bow.

  11. #11
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by grullaguy View Post
    In my rifles, I hand seat the sized pp bullet into the fired/unsized case by hand. I do chamfer the neck if I think the patch may hang up. No need to bell.

    Having the bullet fill the throat is desirable, so a bullet that fits into a fired/expanded case snug, will also be close to perfect for the throat. If using a compressible filler, there is the added benefit of seating the bullet out of the case, so that it can meet the rifling and then be seated the final bit when the bolt is closed. Any number of lubes work, but it is a bit of a knack to figure how much to put on for the best results. I use some old Aerowax that I originally got for waxing the limbs on my recurve bow.
    So you just size the case neck by firing a PP round? Interesting. What do you do for firearms with tubular magazines?

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    I don't own any lever actions, so have not had to figure that method out.

    I would first try a full case of powder/filler, so that the bullet would not be able to move back in the case. Would it work? Not sure...

  13. #13
    Boolit Master NoAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grullaguy View Post
    In my rifles, I hand seat the sized pp bullet into the fired/unsized case by hand. I do chamfer the neck if I think the patch may hang up. No need to bell.

    Having the bullet fill the throat is desirable, so a bullet that fits into a fired/expanded case snug, will also be close to perfect for the throat. If using a compressible filler, there is the added benefit of seating the bullet out of the case, so that it can meet the rifling and then be seated the final bit when the bolt is closed. Any number of lubes work, but it is a bit of a knack to figure how much to put on for the best results. I use some old Aerowax that I originally got for waxing the limbs on my recurve bow.



    I do the same. I try to use a powder that gives a 100% case fill and thumb seat the bullet roughly .100 too long. The OAL is set when the bolt is closed. The powder prevents the bullet from setting back. The only downside is, it's a lot like a muzzle loader. Once loaded, you gotta shoot it. Unloading it is a pain and messy as it will usually pull the bullet out of the case.
    When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"

  14. #14
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    Size the boolits so that they are a tight slip fit by hand into a fired, primed case. I don't think that vaseline would be a good choice of a lube as it will saturate the patch. I use JPW or Rooster Jacket, or even White Label BAC lightly applied to the patch. Set the boolit long in the case and let the bolt seat it as it is being closed. This will engage it into the rifling. This, and using a slow burning powder has worked well in my MN.

  15. #15
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterAZ View Post
    Size the boolits so that they are a tight slip fit by hand into a fired, primed case. I don't think that vaseline would be a good choice of a lube as it will saturate the patch. I use JPW or Rooster Jacket, or even White Label BAC lightly applied to the patch. Set the boolit long in the case and let the bolt seat it as it is being closed. This will engage it into the rifling. This, and using a slow burning powder has worked well in my MN.
    Thanks for that. What are those lubes normally used for? (Sorry dumb question) Where would you buy them?

    What does everyone else use for lube?

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    I do size after patching with my lyman lubrisizer.
    The lube I am using is a mix of 50/50 beeswax vaseline.
    The paperpatch after this sizing is real smooth and slippery .. patches are on real Thight as the are ironed out in the proces.

  17. #17
    Boolit Man
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    Thanks Edwin41. Maybe I just used too much vaseline then.

    I was just cleaning the Mosin of some of this leading and I noticed that the bore is either more worn or a bit counterbored towards the muzzle. Would this be having any effect on my rounds?

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Ricochet's Avatar
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    Mosins that were refurbished over there pretty much all got counterbored at the muzzle to take out cleaning rod wear. Think of it as a deeply crowned muzzle.
    "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    in my Husqvarna rifle I can seat out the patched bullet as far as possible and still not reach the rifling .
    common practice would be to wrap to a diametre of the throat , so the bullet would be a thight fitting.

    in my case I size the patched bullets to nominal diametre and set them at a normal overall length .
    this would mean that the bullet has a rather long jump to the rifling , but I guess the patch survives this jump because
    I find no leading in the barrel.

    what I am trying to say is that you could try a core little over boresize , wrap it twice with your patch and run them through
    a sizer of nominal for caliber size.
    you could put a little dab of 50/50 beeswax-Vaseline on your fingers and get a little on the patch before sizing if you don't have a
    lubrisizer.

    you will notice that the patch gets ironed out and becomes smooth and very tough , tough enough to make the jump to the rifling.


    I am currently testing core sizes by the way... I even had a coresize of nominal caliber size , wrapped twice and sized
    to nominal caliber size again , and even these worked. this patch was really compressed , smooth and thight !

    my finished projectiles are more leaning towards the j-word layout , a lead core with a jacked in nominal size , set at a nominal
    OAL...


    I have to make the comment that I cast with a soft alloy , just lead with some tin , and fumbeling around in the lower velocities with the AA 5477 powder..
    Last edited by edwin41; 06-23-2017 at 07:30 PM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Man
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    Ok, update. Am now sizing cores to .307 and PP up to in between .313 and .314 with two wraps of onionskin. Began seating Boolits as per the suggestions above by closing bolt on loosely seated Boolit. Cut the lube and made up one set of test cartridges with 12gr of red dot and one with 40gr of IMR 3031. The Red dot load appeared to work adequately with little to no leading. The IMR load on the other hand just smeared the barrel. I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here.

    Again, really appreciate the help!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check