Getting ready for elk season

[idahoron]

ah you boys just need to get out and hunt more!

Its a 50cal. I've hunted elk many times with a 54 and it was common for them to go only 40 to 60 yards after a double lung hit.

I don't shoot traditional sidelocks just to go and use a conical. Kind of ruins the whole point.

All I am saying is if your going to bust someone chops for not hunting enough then you need to give some statistics on your experience. I have only seen you post one elk picture. If you have enough experience that you insist that others catch up to you then prove some experience. The fact you can hit the broad side of the barn while in the barn does not make the gun and load an elk load.

[54bore]

Ron is dead on with that lead hardening over time, set a few of them balls aside for next year and try loading them, as to how long it takes to age harden I'm not sure? I did this with the Lee S&W 500 bullets, they were in the 9-9.5BHN, i could patch and size them no problems the first week they were poured, i had other things going on and left about 30-40 of them on my reloading bench for a year, I recently tried to patch and size them and they STUCK in my die, they had age hardened. Your hardened Round balls will most definitely do the same with age!

I have hunted with Ron and i can tell you now that you would be HARD PRESSED to find a more knowledgeable, ethical hunter than he is. I have hunted AVIDLY every year since i was old enough to get through hunter safety education, carry a gun and follow behind my dad, (i killed my first bear when i was 9 years old) i have also killed a deer every year since i was 9 (I am 45 Now) while not as successful with elk, i have killed several of them, Cows and bulls, they are an EXTREMELY tough critter that can suck up a BUNCH of lead and truck it MANY miles!

Your Round balls will indeed kill an elk with your range being VERY limited, similiar to Archery (I wouldn't chance a shot over 50-60 yards) their are MUCH better choices for Elk, such as a Maxi Ball

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

You boys do the worrying, I'll do the shooting, butchering and hauling it out job

[johnson1942]

yep i know your ready. saw you on another site with your traditions flintlock and that fancy coon skin cap on your head. have fun.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

now now, if'n yer guna talk about my hat, be sure you call it by its right name.. Badger fur hat lol

[Boz330]

ah you boys just need to get out and hunt more!

Its a 50cal. I've hunted elk many times with a 54 and it was common for them to go only 40 to 60 yards after a double lung hit.

I don't shoot traditional sidelocks just to go and use a conical. Kind of ruins the whole point.

I guided elk hunters in NM for a number of years, almost all primitive hunts (ML and Bow). I saw way more elk get away or clean misses than dropped. As I said "I'm not saying the 50 won't do the job with good shot placement at close range but it is marginal", it can be done, I personally would prefer a 58 with a RB, it retains way more energy at 100yd.
I saw too many hunters show up with 50cal inlines with sabots and use a 44mag bullet in the sabot like they did for deer and not be able to get past the shoulder blade of a big elk. One of my last hunters was using a 52cal Knight with a Barnes 375gr 45cal bullet at almost 2000fps and it went through both shoulders and left a fist size exit hole DRT.

Bob

[OverMax]

No advice other than: Have a good hunt and "don't forget you're camera young feller."

[johnson1942]

lewis and clark had either 54 or 58 cal rifles as im not sure which but much bigger than a 50 cal. now for historical facts on hunting in the woods of the east coast. the hunts were done in large groups and they drove all the critters in the woods in front of them and funneled then into a tight area with brush fences set up before hand. this was done for meat with no sport of hunting attached to it at all. they used every critter they shot at close range this way. mountain lions was taken also, im not sure they used the meat but it is good meat and they may have eaten them also. when men from the east moved west the bore size of the guns increased. idaho ron hunts rugged country and no elk stands in front of him at close range and says shoot me shoot me. he stalks them and shoots them in a vital area from distances the east coast woods men never saw. one can hunt elk with a 50 cal round ball but the person doing it better keep it with in a respectable range for that gun and then place the shot in such a way that they wont loose the meat. on a broad side shot the best way to place such a shot is look at the withers of the critter and go to the middle of it then 3 inches up into the neck. my native american friend and profesional guide and hunter has shot way over 300 buffalo at 100 yards using this method. he uses mostly a 38/55 winchester lever action to do this. it shocks the spinal area or severs it. i have a 50 cal 1/28 twist custom hawken i built for my self and it shoots a 535 grain pp bullet very very accurate. i would use that for elk but if i was to build a roundball gun for elk it would be a 58 cal at least. get close, place your shot, but dont tell us that the early east coast hunters did it with 50/s as they hunted in groups and shot them with in a few yards of the gun. the way out west is a whole other story. ron is a master of out west hunting. when the sharps came alone the 50/s were used from texas to the kansas nebraska border. it usually took one shot from these 50/s to bring a buffalo down. suddenly for some reason when the hunts moved into nebraska and north of there the 40/s and 45/s came into being popular. then the shots to bring down a buffalo increased with the 40/s needing 3 shoots much of the time. the 50 sharps were not using round balls in their guns, they were slugs from 400 to 600 grains or more. when we quote history, lets do it like paul harvey, give the details and the full story.

[idahoron]

Ha Ha, I am no master but I have put a lot of elk to the ground.
I like Jon, that is why I hard time him a bit. Having confidence in a rifle and a load goes a long way to achieving success but how does a normal hunters attain confidence? I remember the cow you said you shot was 140 yards. I applaud that you made the shot, that is a ways out there for the sights your using.

But elk hunters have to look deep and ask is the load I am using capable of anchoring this animal at this yardage. And The question asked should be will my bullet penetrate to vitals? What happens if the ball is blown off course?
To answer those questions a guy should have shot an elk at 50 yards. Then his next at 100 and so on.
Anyone can lob a bullet and hope for the best, that doesn't provide definitive proof of the load in question.

All I am asking of you Jon is to not underestimate the toughness of an elk. Don't overestimate the power of a PRB with only 70 grains of powder. That load in my opinion is a light deer load, A very light deer load.

[bubba.50]

with all the changes goin' on around here, this site needs to install an actual popcorn machine so's people can have a snack while they watch the show.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Have no fear gents. I never take a shot I'm not comfortable with. I always stick to broadside shots on elk. I'm actually taking two guns. I have a doe tag, so I want to use my 50cal mountain rifle flintlock for the doe. Our elk come into bugles and cow calling, so anything within 75 yards with a good shot is coming home with me.

[johnson1942]

i never ever went less than 100 grains of real black when i hunted with a 50 cal round ball. i had the right twist for it. also used linen patches cut off at the muzzle. and ron your right about what happens to the round ball when it it hits. shot a buck antelope at 150 yards with the 50 patched round ball gun and it hit him in the left shoulder and shattered that and the ball split in half and one half went through and shattered the right shoulder and the other half went lower and broke the bone in his upper right leg. he went down and a second shot in the head ended it all. that soft round ball at the speed it was going split right in half. when i shot critters with the pp 50 cal bullet it was over right now. last season the deer we got was 190 yards, 180 yards and a close one at 100 yards. koger was prepared for long shots and they dropped like a rock as was i did the same. sorry you think this is a circus or side show but im into facts and not bull $$$$hit as some like to sling. if your going to argue as a member here about things have facts and science to back it up. any one back east or who lives in the woods do not know the conditions we hunt out west. idaho ron hunts in some of the most rugged out of the way places on Gods green earth. so do i. nothing stands and looks at us at 30 to 100 yards and rarely says shoot me shoot me. if someone thinks this is a side show it is not, it is facts based on the math and science of shooting. if ron and i were to go back to round balls we wouldnt be getting plate size groups at 100 or 150 yards. im going to in the future going to convert my bench pp 50 to a 45 cal round ball bench gun and it will be a one hole gun at 100 yards also. its just a matter of math and science.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

well, I will be testing some 90gr 2fg olde eynsford loads tomorrow at 100 yards. I think its going to shoot super high, but we'll find out. I can deal with 4" high at 100, but thats a little overkill IMO.

[idahoron]

There is no such thing as over kill on elk. Anyone that thinks so is not a hunter.

[triggerhappy243]

My 50/50 mix is 50% soft lead and 50% chilled lead shot I melted down into ingots.

I doubt that 223gr round ball expanded much at 140 yards on a cow I shot years ago with 80gr Pyrodex RS, but man her lungs were shattered.[/QUOTE]

Round ball for a 50 cal. weighs 175 gr. Approx, not 223. I measured my balls, ant the 50 were 175 and the 54 were 223. I have a friend who used to hunt elk every year either in Co. or in N.M. this dude was a freak survivalist when it came to his trips. His shots never exceeded 40 yards and the elk never knew what hit them. DEAD RIGHT THERE. And he used 50 cal. round ball. Point being, 40 yards or less. most were 25-30. Would I ever hunt elk with my 50 with a round ball, heck no, I would use my 54 and a 435 gr. maxi-ball, with it grouping like this. BY THE WAY, THIS IS 3 SHOTS AT 100 YARDS.

[triggerhappy243]

I just read thru my load book for round ball vs. maxi-ball. 50 cal. round ball loaded with 80 gr. of whatever yields 1313 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. 54 cal. RB punches with 1397 with the same charge. a 54 cal. maxi-ball punches with 1970 foot pounds at the muzzle.the 54 cal weighs 2 and a half times your 50 cal. RB.

[54bore]

BY THE WAY, THIS IS 3 SHOTS AT 100 YARDS.

That 100 yard target with Maxi balls was some darn good shootin Trigger!!

[triggerhappy243]

That 100 yard target with Maxi balls was some darn good shootin Trigger!!

keep in mind...... i would not go on a big game hunt until i can repeat this group 4 separate times. ELIMINATE THAT LUCKY SHOT THEORY. EH?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

There is no such thing as over kill on elk. Anyone that thinks so is not a hunter.

Overkill if its shooting 4" high at 100 yards is what I meant.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

My 50/50 mix is 50% soft lead and 50% chilled lead shot I melted down into ingots.

I doubt that 223gr round ball expanded much at 140 yards on a cow I shot years ago with 80gr Pyrodex RS, but man her lungs were shattered.

Round ball for a 50 cal. weighs 175 gr. Approx, not 223. I measured my balls, ant the 50 were 175 and the 54 were 223. I have a friend who used to hunt elk every year either in Co. or in N.M. this dude was a freak survivalist when it came to his trips. His shots never exceeded 40 yards and the elk never knew what hit them. DEAD RIGHT THERE. And he used 50 cal. round ball. Point being, 40 yards or less. most were 25-30. Would I ever hunt elk with my 50 with a round ball, heck no, I would use my 54 and a 435 gr. maxi-ball, with it grouping like this. BY THE WAY, THIS IS 3 SHOTS AT 100 YARDS.[/QUOTE]
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My 140 yard elk kill was with a 54cal shooting a .530" 223gr round ball.

My current 50cal shoots a .490" ball that I sort out in weights of 177 to 178.8 grains.

My brother drew a cow elk tag, so he will be taking his Hawken out as well with patched round ball! Hes shooting a 54cal.