What say ya'll?

[tinhorn97062]

Can a person be a "strong Christian" and a habitual liar at the same time? This came up earlier in a conversation that I was having.

Please, discuss.

[Bzcraig]

Brother, that is a loaded question! "Strong" needs to be defined as it's a very subjective word especially in this context. On face value my initial response would be 'no' inasmuch as in my mind any 'habitual or besetting' sin would indicate misunderstanding of some basic Christian doctrine(s). If though, for example, lying is a symptom of a larger personality disorder??

[GhostHawk]

Lie why? For who's benefit?

We all fail, falter, stumble and fall daily. Christ often said go forth and sin no more.

Can you be a strong believing Christian and a habitual liar?

I would tend to say not really. Either not that strong a christian or that leopard is not willing to change his spots.

More like a run of the mill "Christian" in name only and maybe for an hour on Sunday.

But Christ also cautioned us about judging.

So It seems to me if his faith was that strong he would stop the lies. But it is his Creator that he is going to have to convince, not me.

[bubba.50]

I would opine that a habitual liar would lie about bein' a "Strong Christian" too. makin' him not much of a Christian at all as well as a hypocrite.

my opinion & yer welcome to it.

[Boaz]

Agree with bubba , knowingly habitual lying and claiming to believe don't mix .

[tinhorn97062]

Interesting points of view, and I don't believe any are off base at all. The question is not specifically loaded..at least, not intentionally. Like I said, it came up in conversation today. I spoke up and said that if the Spirit of God was at work, then a person wouldn't be ok with habitually lying. The retort was that we all fall short, and we're all liars, and such. While this is true in theory, I would still contend with what Jesus said- the the Spirit of God, aka "the Comfortor", convicts us of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come. So- His work is clear. And we know that God said "don't lie". And we know that liars will have their place in the lake of fire. This is all bible doctrine. We were then challenged with "God deals with the things that we're ready for Hik to deal with". At that point, I chose to exit the conversation.

Anyway- I wasn't looking for any particular answer. I was looking for a general discussion on the matter, because iron sharpens iron. So please, continue to discuss.

[Love Life]

Meh. I'm just here to witness and spread the gospel as best I can. I'll let God sort out the rest.

[tunnug]

So, if he's a habitual liar, maybe he was lying when he said he was a strong Christian.

Oops! looks like Bubba said it better.................

[jmort]

I don't generally feel convicted telling a lie that might make someone feel good. Say they have an ugly baby and you say, the baby is looking good. Who is hurt??? Might not even be defined as a lie. To me a lie is designed to hurt and deceive others. But I get it, and see that it would be better not to tell someone their wife was hit with an ugly stick. Probably best to stay silent. But habitual lying for personal gain or to cause constant hurt to others would indicate that due to the fruit growing on that, that vine means that vine needs to be pruned.

[rl69]

I think it's posable. Depending on like Bzcraig said "your definition of strong " I think a man could be growing in Christ ,witnessing to others, and God working on him in different parts of his life. I also believe like you and the others he will start to fill the pain of his lies in Gods time

[USMC87]

Let your yes be yes and no be no.

[Wayne Smith]

Read 1 John. It is the focus of his discussion, not just lying, but continued sin.

[Hogtamer]

I have a terminal personality disorder and even know its name - SIN! It was on display vividly one day at work last week as I "flung a fit" because things didn't go to suit me. I was rude, ugly, thoughtless, prideful, dishonored God, spoiled my testimony and was hurtful to others. I've been a Christian for a long time, too. In the end it is a reminder that my own righteousness is as filthy rags, that without repentance and forgiveness from Almighty God I am nothing. I am thankful that God's mercy is new every morning and by His love alone I am not consumed. But as a Christian God's Spirit informs me that a big part of that repentance will be asking forgiveness from those I offended. The fact that it seems a hard thing to do highlights the very sin of which I am chief, an ugly and misplaced pride, a thorn in my flesh until I am horizontal before the church and fully conformed to the image of my Savior Jesus Christ.

[Boaz]

Walked in the front door at church several years ago headed for the senior bible study . Heard screaming and crying . Went down the hall and opened the door to a classroom were the ruckus was happening and it was mayhem ! Fighting , pushing , some just crying ! I asked the only lady in charge if I could help . She said no , that the other teacher would be there soon .

Yea , it was the pee wee group age 3-5 . Selfish , self serving sinners already ! Are we sinners ? Yes sir !

[dverna]

What jmort said.

[Blackwater]

Christ himself said, "Many will come in my name and say 'yea, yea,' but they do not know me." So without particulars, it's impossible to rationally opine on the question. And like Craig said, we need to clarify and more specifically nail down the definitions of the words in your question. This also makes it impossible to render a good, valid opinion on the matter.

However, all that being true, it's still doubtful that a truly "habitual" liar would have the Spirit in him. Personally, though, I hesitate to stand in judgment over anyone, no matter what their outward indications might be. Some are crying out for help, but all most "Christians" render to them are condemnations! We can never know all that's going on inside someone. Their professions and declarations of faith MAY be merely a vocalized wish to BE that kind of person. It gets far too complex to truly understand anyone like you describe here, so .... my better instincts are to simply not answer the question either way, except maybe in a very tentative and qualified manner, such as I have here. It's the Lord's job to judge folks. Not mine or yours. And there's a FAR too strong a tendency in many sects and groups within Christianity to stand in judgment WAY too quickly than Christ advised us to, and though we all must assess whether someone is trustworthy or not, standing in judgment over them and condemning them is something Christ himself warned us not to do.

This is a fine point, and demands very narrow meanings of the words we commonly use to express our opinions on matters like this. God knows what's in our hearts, and what we mean to say, but questions like this all too often result in arguments and even rifts, and often, it's really over a difference or shading of the meanings of the words we use. In other words, it's more over semantics than it really is over true theology.

We humans labor mightily to communicate exactly what we mean, and I doubt one of us has yet achieved that, other than fleetingly. Why else would we be so spellbound and honor our poets like we do? Just MHO, but I think it's grounded in the advice the Lord left us to go by. But it's still far from the "last word" on the matter.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Honestly, I'm not all too keen on the term "strong", in reference to being a Christian. If that's in your lexicon, then is being a weak Christian also in there? If so, what does that mean?

We all sin. Bearing false witness is a sin. We can be forgiven, but must ask for it, and most Christians believe that to receive forgiveness, that repentance is necessary. Now repentance and habitual sinning, seem to clash. I suspect a Christian who is a habitual liar needs to work through that with the Lord.

To the OP's actual question, I suspect it's not up to someone else to decide what a person can be or not be.

[onceabull]

Well Now, we did get one typical Marine answer----"Let God sort them out" !!! Onceabull

[Char-Gar]

"Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone!"

[tinhorn97062]

I appreciate all the input, and it's all very good input. I didn't post this looking for a "yes" or "no", and I'm certainly not casting any stones or passing judgement. I'm certainly in no position to do either one of those. Again, this came up in conversation with another person yesterday. The term "strong Christian" is in quotes, because that was the exact descriptive term used. Is there such a thing as a strong and a weak Christian? Frankly, I think there can be...but it's probably so low on the scale of important things, that it's not worth spending much time on.

I enjoy discussing things in an open forum like this, because it brings many different viewpoints to light- many of which I may not necessarily think about. This time is no different. I've read many points of view from ya'll and some of them flat out convicted me. And I appreciate that. Like I said- iron sharpens iron.

The discussion was with my mom, and the context was my sister. She mentioned some things and I spoke up and said that I must know a different version. That's what the "habitual liar" and "strong Christian" part of the conversation got started.

What convicted me, specifically, is the couple points made about casting the first stone and casting judgment. I realize that we're all called to judge the fruit, but we're also called to show people mercy and grace. This seems to be an area that I continually need to grow in- showing people mercy and grace. Maybe if I was in different shoes, I'd make the same choices...or worse.

Hopefully nobody got offended, and hopefully others found some encouragement through this too.