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Thread: Numric Hopkins and Allen 36 cal.

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Numric Hopkins and Allen 36 cal.

    This weekend I bought a Hopkins and Allen .36 caliber under hammer at a flea market for $80. It has a nice walnut stock and a great bore. My question is what do I need to shoot this? I know round balls, patches and black power but there seems to be so many choices in patch thickness, what "F" black powder? brand? and most importantly loading data? My experience with muzzleloaders is limited to my Thompson Center .54 caliber Renegade I shoot a few times a year for late season deer hunting. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    You will have to play with the loads to find what is right. I'd start with some .350 balls and about .012 patch. FFF would be best for small caliber but ff will work if that's what you already have. Smaller calibers like 36 and below I start lower than the bigger calibers. I usually start with one grain per caliber rounded to the nearest 5 so in other words for your 54, I'd start at 55 but like I started to say, smaller calibers, half so you could start at 15 or 20gr and work up. You can try the same patches your 54 uses. Too big for patches doesn't matter. Look for your fired patches. They should look almost good enough to use again but how they look will tell you things, especially if you have poor accuracy.

    By the way you stole that gun. 36s being harder to come by and under hammers run even higher. Congrats!
    Aim small, miss small!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    I have a .36 cal. underhammer - not a H & A but one of the copies that Deer Creek sold back in the 80's.

    Your rifle should have a Numerich barrel on it - sometimes they were a little "tight" as far as bore dimensions but they were/are excellent barrels.

    My rifle has a Green Mountain barrel. I use a .350 soft lead cast round ball - I cut patch strips from lighter weight cotton material - usually buy what I would call "shirt material" off of the bargain table. Sorry, but I have never "miked" it as it just works so well out of my rifle. I soak them in water soluble oil - let dry - roll and then cut at the muzzle. IIRC, my usual charge for my rifle is around 32 - 34 grains of FFFG Goex. I mainly shoot at 25 and 50 yards and that charge works well out of my rifle.

    In yours, you are just going to have to play with it and see what charge works the best for the shooting you do and the same goes for the patch material thickness. I have been shooting BP for 50 plus years and I do not like what I would term a "tight load". I start with a fouling shot (powder only), spit patch and then load. For range work/target shooting, I spit patch between shots and in my barrel, it works well and keeps fouling down. I use a short starter but once I introduce the ramrod, I like to be able to make a good, quick and smooth push down the bore and feel it seat on the powder.

    You did very well on the price! You got a great rifle and it will give you a whole lot of pleasure and smiles on your face! The nice thing about an under hammer is that it is simple, quick ignition and great for either a left or right handed shooter.

    As a side note - when I got mine, I ordered it from Deer Creek and picked it up from them at their booth at the Nationals at Friendship. I went over to the sheep sheds, bought a bag of .350 balls and went over to the offhand range to "try 'er out". I ran several dry patches down the bore, loaded and shot 5 shots - no adjustments to the sights - just as it was handed to me. My eyesight was a lot better in those days but the first five shots I had a group that measured 1.75" at twenty five yards. Beginner's luck but the rifle is much more accurate than I. The rifle in .36 is a great gun for squirrels, rabbits, etc. as well.

    Have fun and enjoy! And don't let anyone talk you out of the rifle - you'll regret it if you ever sell it!

  4. #4
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    ="tim338"]

    My question is what do I need to shoot this ?

    FWIW:

    * H&A underhammer rifles have undersize bores, compared to other maker's - my .36 H&A Heritage took patched .340" balls, which I got from www.trackofthewolf.com (I would strongly advise obtaining an extra nipple specific for the H&A, and a nipple wrench, from TOTW @ the same time)

    (Other brand .36's take a .350" ball)

    Alternatively, .330" OO buckshot or a Hornady .314" SWC boolit can be used, both with patches.

    * I used (and still do) about 15gr (+/-) FFFg for my H&A and T/C .36's - any brand of Holy Black you can get your paws on will do nicely.

    * A longer ramrod (RR) than the issue striped RR will be needed for cleaning, and also make it easier to load - I made one about 10 years ago from a 48" long orange driveway marker, cut to length (I like one just enough longer than the bore for the fist of my hand to have enough room to work the RR), with boughten (TOTW) brass RR ends epoxied/pinned on. (I've had NO issues with rifling wear @ the muzzle from the RR)

    * An inline capper makes things easier when reloading, and speedloaders (google both "for sale") are great when/if hunting with it.


    They're very nice lightweight hunting rifles, and can really shine with a peepsight.


    .
    Last edited by pietro; 02-09-2020 at 08:01 PM.
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro View Post
    FWIW:

    * H&A underhammer rifles have undersize bores, compared to other maker's - my .36 H&A Heritage took patched .340" balls, which I got from www.trackofthewolf.com (I would strongly advise obtaining an extra nipple specific for the H&A, and a nipple wrench, from TOTW @ the same time)

    (Other brand .36's take a .350" ball)

    Alternatively, .330" OO buckshot or a Hornady .314" SWC boolit can be used, both with patches.

    * I used (and still do) about 15gr (+/-) FFFg for my H&A and T/C .36's - any brand of Holy Black you can get your paws on will do nicely.

    * A longer ramrod (RR) that the issue striped RR will be needed for cleaning, and also make it easier to load - I made one about 10 years ago from a 48" long orange driveway marker, cut to length (I like one just enough longer than the bore for the fist of my hand to have enough room to work the RR), with boughten (TOTW) brass RR ends epoxied/pinned on. (I've had NO issues with rifling wear @ the muzzle from the RR)

    * An inline capper makes things easier when reloading, and speedloaders (google both "for sale") are great when/if hunting with it.


    They're very nice lightweight hunting rifles, and can really shine with a peepsight.


    .
    Do you mean like this.

    Bob
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    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Just like it! Tell me about the peep sight that's on it.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    For that price you rely scored, made a killing on it!!!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    UNDERHAMMER'S RULE!!! .320, 32 CAL. up too .575. 58 CAL.!!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Hanshi's Avatar
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    My H&A is a .45 I bought back in the mid 1960s. These are excellent rifles. My .36 is a flintlock longrifle and will shoot 1" groups at 50 yards. The .36 is very versatile rifle for small game, targets and varmints. Best accuracy in mine comes from 20-30 grains of 3F.
    Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy hornady308's Avatar
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    Mine also uses .340 round balls. One word of caution regarding these rifles: if you have the gun at full cock and you strike the trigger guard hard enough, it will cause the hammer to fall. Ask me how I know.
    Last edited by hornady308; 02-14-2020 at 07:39 PM.

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