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Thread: 7x57 from 8x57

  1. #21
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by bjmurata View Post
    I've been a fan of the file trim dies for many years now and have several that I use on a regular basis. Few quick swipes with a fresh hacksaw blade and then a good file and you are pretty much there. Final form in the full length die for completion, works fine for me.

    Yes Sir. I'm not sure if the Pacific file/trim die is intended to be used as a pseudo forming die - probably not. However, it works well in turning 30-06 brass into 8x57.
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  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Interesting thread. If you are going to resize 7x08 to 7x57 your cases will have to grow 0.200' to meet proper length. 244 Rem/6mmRem is based on7x57 case as is 8x57,257 Roberts and 9x57. The 244 has a sharper sholder angle than the other calibers based on 7 x 57. If you are going to resize 244/6mm brass you will definitely have to full length resize to reduce shoulder angle..
    Didn't know that people didn't reload 270 Win. Too many relatives had 270s and all were reloaded.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    I once bought a used Interarms Mark V Mauser in 7x57 AI. The first shot caused a case head separation. I took it to my local gunsmith who checked the headspace. It was .035 excessive. When I checked I discovered that is the exact difference between 7x57 and 8x57. I assume that whoever set up the gun thought it would be the same for both calibers as 8x57 was developed from 7x57.
    When the headspace was adjusted it worked perfectly even with maximum loads.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master RogerDat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mac60 View Post
    I run 30-06 brass into an old Pacific file/trim die (this pushes the shoulder back nicely), cut them off with a hacksaw then file them off flush with the top of the die. The result of this first step is a more or less formed case. I then size them f/l and do a final trim in a case trimmer. None of the rifles I have in 8x57 require neck reaming or turning. You may be able to make 7x57 brass from .270 brass using this method. At any rate, a file/trim die is a great way to remove a lot of brass in one fell swoop.
    The file/trim dies (mine is RCBS and recently purchased) work well. I picked up a Harbor Freight 2" cut off saw and rather than cut in the die using a hacksaw I just formed and marked in the die, then cut in the mini chop saw. Then back into the file/trim die for a bit of file work to true up mouth of case and get really close. Then into a trimming die to finish sizing. One thing I would note is use a file you don't mind dulling, the top of the file/trim die is harder than the file. I was doing 8x57

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/60...06-springfield reviews say also can use 270 brass. Might be just the ticket for pile-o-brass project.

    One last note try one case to finished with bullet to insure it chambers and bolt closes / extracts correctly. Would be a total PITA to find out that your particular gun or brass didn't quite fit after making up 50 or a 100 cases.

    For 30-06 cases I am only using military brass, primer pocket is more of a hassle but there is no caliber headstamp so I am not making 8mm that has a 30-06 headstamp. Just says something like LC 57 as is typical of military brass. Don't think that would be an option if using .270 brass to reform.
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  5. #25
    Yes just size they fl die

  6. #26
    PAPERPATCH MASTER


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    I make my .416 Taylor cases from Hornady 45 Mag. basic brass. Being overly long I first run them thru my de-cap/sizer die without the decap rod. Now I use a small tubing cutter (I used to be a plumber which is why I have a tubing cutter). I run them again thru the sizer and then do a final trim on my RCBS auto trim tool for correct length. Robert

  7. #27
    Boolit Master opos's Avatar
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    Guess I'm just too lazy...SG ammo and others have PRVI Partisan loaded (139 and a heavier bullet) loaded ammo for super reasonable cost...I get one round to shoot...then customize the brass to my rifle (I only have one 7x57) and use Lee Collet dies and it just lasts for a very long time...the cost of that first "loaded round" spread out over a number of reloads makes the initial cost nil...the PRVI has been great brass for me...

  8. #28
    Boolit Bub
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    I apologize for digging this up from the basement but please allow me a few questions?

    When forming 7x57 from.....anything, how much does the capacity change per brand of brass?
    IS Remington 7x57 brass the "undersized junk" I keep getting told it is? I'm a bit of a Remington loony.
    A couple said it was "2 grains of powder" undersized. I'm like.....oh big whoop. Gasp, Faint.....oh brother.
    How's the quality of "new old stock" Remington 7x57?

    I'm assuming from the replies that the SLIGHT difference in rim/web areas of the 7x57 and 8x57 are inconsequential?

    Many think one is the parent of the other, but it is not. 7x57 has no listed parent case (and came about pre 1900) and the 8x57 's parent case is the M88 round..........allegedly, came about 1905 ish. (per Wiki......but who knows who typed these, lol)

    Anywho.......CIP lists SLIGHT differences in the case's base area.. but I cannot wrap my head around ANY manufacturer not making them the same NOW. The slight differences would seem cost preventative to me.

    But.........on the subject of WHY one would form 7x57 out of 7x57....is I CAN buy 8x57 Lapua cases but a bit over a buck each. hmmmmmmmmm

    A bit squeamish on the PPU brass. Too many horror stories at bedtime or something.

    New to me 1981 700 Classic...... 100 cases will probably outlast me so...wanna do it right.

    God Bless
    Steve

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    If my information is correct the only thing that changed in 1905 with the 8 X 57 was the groove diameter from .318 to .323 and changing from a round nose 220 gr. bullet to a 150 gr. spitzer bullet. As far as I know the 8 X 57 is the parent of the 7 X 57 along with everything else based on the 8 X 57 head size....which includes the 30-06.

    I'm not particularly a Remington fan but, neither do I have anything against them. I've used a pile of Remington 30-06 brass to re-form to something else and never had any issues. As with yourself, if the capacity is less, so what? I would like to think I'm an astute enough handloader to accommodate any differences.

    When talking about rimless cases I don't think I would go to the trouble of re-forming one into the other for the reasons you listed. When it comes to 7 X 57R and/or 8 X 57R I believe that falls into a different light. To date I've not had need for 8 X 57R but have necked up some 7 X 57R into 9 X 57R for use in a Franz Jaeger drilling.

    You mention horror stories about PPU brass. I must have missed them as I've had nothing but good results with their brass. I suppose in reality that doesn't mean a lot as that's just one man's experience.

    The 8 X 57 is a fine cartridge. It's only bugaboo in this country was the 1905 change in groove diameter you mentioned. Consequently most, if not all, 8 X 57 factory ammo in the US is underloaded. As handloaders we can take advantage of all the fine qualities the 8 X 57 possesses....and they are multitude. I'll take the 8 X 57 over the -06 every time.
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  10. #30
    Boolit Bub
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    I think anything with "MM" tacked on it is underloaded in the US, lol. The 8mm is one of the worst though.

    On the PPU I can only relate stories told to me about undersized primer pockets to the point they hand to ream them to get primers in. I don't have that kind of faith in my abilities but yes, many also claim it's top notch.

    Half tempted to just buy 4 boxes or so (don't really NEED 100) of loaded Remington 7x57 and load the brass.

    I might be hallucinating but if MY name was going on loaded rounds, I'd do double checks on brass used for factory ammo. They should double check it all but..........experience says they do not. I probably couldn't afford it if they did.

    Odd. I've always thought the 8mm M was the parent round too.........but danged if I can find anything other than that's what most others think too. Nothing I'd call concrete but I have a HARD time thinking Paul Mauser created a new case top to bottom in the late 1890s............so I'm positive you are correct.

    It does seem odd that EU case diagrams show differences in rim, extractor groove and base measurements. They are TINY, but still........shown as different from each other.

    Records from the 1890s would have to be a bit .......iffy, LOL.

    No matter. Thanks for the info!

    God Bless
    Last edited by IndySteve; 06-14-2018 at 08:46 AM.

  11. #31
    Boolit Bub
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  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    As far as case capacity is concerned, there is no hard and fast rule. If you re-form from another caliber case, you may very well have a difference in grain-weight capacity. To find out, full length size a case, seat your bullet of choice in the unprimed case, weigh it, use a syringe (or?) to fill the case with water and re-weigh. Since water and powder are very close in grain-weight measurement, subtracting the first weight from the second will give you the grain-weight difference and the result can then be compared with the same procedure done using a factory case made for your firearm. Be aware this is still a "ball park" determination as case capacity can (and often does) vary even in different runs from the same manufacturer.
    R.D.M.

  13. #33
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Based on my experience with it, I wouldn't mind if all my brass was PPU. And it's reasonably priced.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy Jedman's Avatar
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    I am with TbG's recommendations on PPU brass. I use there brasss in at least 4 calibers and it is great quality !

    Jedman

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Graf has Privi 7x57 brass in stock for 54 cents apiece.
    That's a bargain.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    That is a good price Texas! I wish someone had any X57R in stock at that price. I have no doubts that one day I'm going to need 8 X 57R and I loathe the thought of necking up anymore of my small stash of 7 X 57R.
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  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy Jedman's Avatar
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    Try Powder Valley Inc. they have both 7 x57 and 8 X 57 listed in stock for $ 25 and change for a bag of 50.
    I have bought from them for years and they are fast and have good prices.

    Jedman

  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master WILCO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seaboltm View Post
    7x57 brass is easy to find. Why go through the trouble?
    Best answer.
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  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndySteve View Post
    I think anything with "MM" tacked on it is underloaded in the US, lol. The 8mm is one of the worst though.

    On the PPU I can only relate stories told to me about undersized primer pockets to the point they hand to ream them to get primers in. I don't have that kind of faith in my abilities but yes, many also claim it's top notch.

    Half tempted to just buy 4 boxes or so (don't really NEED 100) of loaded Remington 7x57 and load the brass.

    I might be hallucinating but if MY name was going on loaded rounds, I'd do double checks on brass used for factory ammo. They should double check it all but..........experience says they do not. I probably couldn't afford it if they did.

    Odd. I've always thought the 8mm M was the parent round too.........but danged if I can find anything other than that's what most others think too. Nothing I'd call concrete but I have a HARD time thinking Paul Mauser created a new case top to bottom in the late 1890s............so I'm positive you are correct.

    It does seem odd that EU case diagrams show differences in rim, extractor groove and base measurements. They are TINY, but still........shown as different from each other.

    Records from the 1890s would have to be a bit .......iffy, LOL.

    No matter. Thanks for the info!

    God Bless
    I think the Spanish created the 7x57 for the 93 Mauser.
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  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndySteve View Post
    I've always thought the 8mm M was the parent round too.........but danged if I can find anything other than that's what most others think too.

    No matter. Thanks for the info! God Bless
    Steve, on the GGCA, (German Gun Collector's Assn., I'm a member), there is a discussion about 6.5 X 57 brass. Needless to say several of those guys are guru's when it comes to German firearms and cartridges. One of those guru's just posted, in reference to the difference to head diameter. This same gentleman is a retired Army officer who spent about half his 22 year career in Germany, in the process getting to know a few of the old gunsmiths who were working before WWII and learning from them. I think he retired in either the late 70's or early 80's so there was more than a few of those old guys still around. He has lots of incredible stories. Anyway, here's what Mike said.

    "This is because 6.5x57R is based on the M88 case, whereas the 7x57R is based on the M93 case."

    So the original 8 X 57 is not the actual parent of the 7 X 57. I had no idea. gopher is correct and I stand corrected.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check