TC's QLA Muzzle

[54bore]

First off i will say i am not at all fond of the QLA, i only own 1 rifle that has it, a New Englander. I understand its intention is to start a Maxi Ball easily, and it definitely does that. Back in the winter I gave my dad a really nice .54 Cal Hawken Barrel, This barrel has the QLA Muzzle, I got a decent deal on the rifle, all i wanted it for was the stock (I used this stock for my Green Mountain LRH .45 Cal barrel to build my 'Hotrod Hawken') Dad and i have shot together a few times, dad shot the barrel VERY well each time, his load is 100 grains of Goex 2F powder, a wool over powder wad, and Lyman Plains bullet, he also shoots a TC Maxi ball, accuracy is very similar with both bullets, the Lyman plains bullet might have a slight edge, but its close. We shot together today and i had him try my .060 Vegetable over powder wads that i make with a 9/16 Hole punch, the rifle shot ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE, and my dad is an AWESOME open sight shooter. This was only 50 yards, dad shot 4 or 5 shots and they were all over the place, one shot hit the ground in front of the target, i seen the grass part! The bullet actually ricocheted off the ground and tumbled through the target! The only thing different was the .060 Vegetable fibre over powder wad, he switched back to the wool over powder wads and shot a group, the rifle shot great again! The Vegetable Fibre wad is DEFINITELY a NO GO in his rifle with the QLA muzzle! Has Anyone else had anything like this happen? I would not buy a TC with a QLA Muzzle unless it was DARN cheap, and i needed it for the stock and parts.

[54bore]

My Lyman Plains Hunter 1:32 fast twist .54 Cal shoots AWESOME with these exact .060 Vegetable fibre OP wads, look at the group i shot yesterday in my other thread.

[triggerhappy243]

funny you bring this up. a local has posted a new englander rifle for sale. $250.00......... looks clean. what do you think?

[Saxtonyoung]

My experience with a TC QLA has been with a 45 caliber Omega. The only bullets I ever used with this gun is a 420 grain Lyman 457193 sized to .450 for a slip fit . The other bullet I used was a 225 grain 40 caliber bullet I use in a sabot. I had excellent results with both combinations out to 150 yards.

[bubba.50]

the QLA is just somethin' that is there or it ain't. pay it no mind & it'll cause you no problems whatsoever. sounds to me like yer wads were the problem with dad's gun & the QLA had nothin' to do with it.

[54bore]

funny you bring this up. a local has posted a new englander rifle for sale. $250.00......... looks clean. what do you think?

Personally i would AVOID it like the plague, its my least favorite TC, They are a meat potatoes gun. You have to pull the tang to remove the lock, kind of a mickey mouse setup in my opinion. A New Englander wouldn't make a knot in the buttstock of a Renegade or Hawken

[Good Cheer]

New Englanders? I love 'em except when they have a QLA.
A .54 with the QLA became my heptagonal groove .458 bore.


When talking with the TC shop about the QLA, was surprised find out that the square bottom on that counterbore was by intent.
Someone was making goofy decisions at TC.

Happened to pick up a right hand .50 a while back with the idea of using a mag spark and a tang peep with globe front on a longer barrel. Got the parts except deciding upon the caliber... maybe a .47 bore for those .476 molds? Got a .465 ball mold sitting around to use with one also. Maybe so. A longer barreled .460 bore would likely be more useful.

[Saxtonyoung]

Heptagonal - your bore is 7 sided ?

I thought Witworth's hexagonal barrel was interesting.

[Good Cheer]

Well, the "grooves" are shallow trapezoids in cross section with the sides darn near pointing at each other and the geometry worked out to a seven sided polygon more so than a round bore with grooves. The corner of the grooves are effectively a little bulge at the points of the polygon. After seeing how it worked out it gives me pause in planning a similar sized bore as the effect is certainly gratuitous towards cleaning. Reckon that if a body properly pondered the matter some benefit could be derived also towards minimizing the of amount boolit expansion needed to seal off the bore as the "bulges" aren't needed.
Last bore I designed was a .52 and more of a shallow mutli-groove. That works well for the large diameter. If I go for a longer barrel .46 then the seven sided bore is going to get looked at for sure. Or eight sides? I just don't know.

[54bore]

Me and the New Englander just aren't a good fit, I don't like the feel of the wrist, i dont like the way they are put together, i HATE the single trigger, these guns are lightweight and kick noticeably harder than my Hawken or Renegades, 95 grains of swiss 2F behind a 460 Grain bullet MIGHT possibly cause you to forget where you parked your car? Idahoron drilled and tapped the Tang on my New Englander, I mounted a Lyman 57SML on it, with Lyman 17AHB Globe which is quite low for this particular gun, it works awesome for me, but to be safe i would advise the little taller 17AML Globe on this particular rifle.

I can't make myself like the QLA muzzle, in my opinion it was a bad idea. Why can i shoot these Vegetable fibre over powder wads in 2 of my 54s with rifling to the muzzle, but my dad Absolutely can NOT shoot them through his QLA muzzle? I just shot under a 1" Group easily at 50 Yards with my Lyman GP Hunter, And i also shoot an old Pre warning Renegade .54 really well, both with the Vegetable fibre over powder wads, My dad couldn't hit a piece of Plywood yesterday, with a proven barrel/load. I think Gasses are escaping differently each time the bullet and Wad enter the QLA causing the bullet to go Ape ****

[OverMax]

Seems to me there's been allot of belly aching over the years by some T/C owners over that one inch loss of barrel the QLA drilling took. Poor QLAs been blamed for so many inaccurate shots and down range terminal disappointments that~~~ honestly I'd like to have a nickel for each one of those complaints I've heard and read. Although it is unusual.
Such a disappointing T/C QLA equipped firearm is still one of the most desired manufactured B/P firearm/s to this day.

BTW: I've always desired to own a New Englander model knowing they had the ability to change-out its rifled barrel to a choked shotgun barrel at whim. That rifle would have been the cats meow for me up in "my neck of the woods."

[koger]

Well, I have had 2 NE's, both .50, that shot lights out, for hunting, both had the QLA. They would shoot several load combos well, but neither would shoot the Powerbelts well. I have 2 TC Omegas, that are among the most accurate ML's I have ever shot, period, both with QLA, they don't shoot Powerbelts well either. About everything else I have tried, shoots in them, to within1" or so, for 3 shots at 100yds, and my best loads, shoot under 3" @ 300yds. Triggerhappy, if the NE is in very good condition, buy it, will only go up in price, good investment! I recently had a guy, who had a TC Omega, that would not shoot his favorite slug well, I cut the QLA off at his request, recrowned the barrel, drilled and tapped it, replaced front sight. With the Lyman .50 plains slug, oiled veg. fiber wad, and 90grs of 2ffg, literally eats a ragged hole at 100yds, scoped.

[54bore]

BTW: I've always desired to own a New Englander model knowing they had the ability to change-out its rifled barrel to a choked shotgun barrel at whim. That rifle would have been the cats meow for me up in "my neck of the woods."

I will admit the choked 12 Gauge barrel i USE to own for my New Englander was kinda cool, and i was able to pattern it VERY well, looking back I probably should have kept the 12 Gauge barrel and designated my New Englander as a BP Shotgun.

[bubba.50]

funny you bring this up. a local has posted a new englander rifle for sale. $250.00......... looks clean. what do you think?

I wouldn't want to pay $250.00 for it unless it was in absolutely 'like new' condition & had an awesome piece of wood in the stock but, other than that, there's absolutely nothin' wrong with the New Englander. they ARE a bit light so, ya probably wouldn't want it for yer heavy-load gun. as to the non-issue about the tang, properly maintained there is no need for frequent lock removal. and if it's that much problem for ya, file enough off the bottom of the shield to where tang don't need removed to take out the lock and touch it up with a bit of cold blue.

[54bore]

I wouldn't want to pay $250.00 for it unless it was in absolutely 'like new' condition & had an awesome piece of wood in the stock but, other than that, there's absolutely nothin' wrong with the New Englander. they ARE a bit light so, ya probably wouldn't want it for yer heavy-load gun. as to the non-issue about the tang, properly maintained there is no need for frequent lock removal. and if it's that much problem for ya, file enough off the bottom of the shield to where tang don't need removed to take out the lock and touch it up with a bit of cold blue.

That's a DARN good idea bubba!! I like to be able to easily access my lock, and having a tang mounted Lyman 57 on mine makes removing the tang a PITA! I have a project now, i will probably do this today

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

First off i will say i am not at all fond of the QLA,

...SNIP

while my BP knowledge/experience is limited, I'd like to share my little bit of experience with QLA.
(besides the gun in the story below, I've owned 4 other ML long guns, none of those had QLA)

Years ago...like mid 1990s, I bought a Seneca 45 from a fella trying to pawn 4 long guns at the LGS...the LGS offered $100 for all 4, the fella refused. As he walked out the door, I followed. I asked him how much he needed for the Seneca? After a bit of negotiation, I handed him $90 cash for it. At that time, I was real new to Muzzle loaders(only shot my friends TC Hawkin a few times) so I didn't know what to look for when buying a used gun. Well, the barrel was a sewer pipe...a really really bad sewer pipe.

After I buried a brass jag in the bottom of the barrel, then totally ruining the barrel by trying to remove the breach plug while the barrel was clamped in my harbor freight Vice...well that should be enough said on that The gun, then sat in the corner for about a year, til I heard of Fox Ridge outfitters at a gunshow (yes, this was before the internet...well, before I spent time on the internet anyway). I ordered a 36 cal QLA barrel. It was a dream to load a patched RB and was very accurate. I had the 36 Maxi-ball mold (that I sold you) and never got it to shoot good, but I never tried adding a wad, just pushed the lubed conical onto the powder.

[54bore]

Anyone ever done a trigger job on a New Englander? After shooting good set triggers it is REALLY tough for me to grab this New Englander with single trigger and like it, I let my dad shoot it yesterday, he looked around at me and said 'wow, i don't remember that trigger being that stiff?' My dad is who gave me the New Englander so at one time he knew it fairly well, but he has shot his Renegade with set trigger long enough now that the New Englander felt horrible. I think i could learn to like this little New Englander ok with the Tang modified to easy access the lock, and a decent trigger pull

[Saxtonyoung]

I right there with you as far as disliking the single trigger on these guns. I own 2 White Mountain Carbines that have the single trigger and it definitely takes getting use . I own 3 Renegade stocks and purposely avoided the single trigger models when I bought them.

[54bore]

bubba.50, Thank ya for the fix idea on the Tang, it worked flawless! Now i can easily access my lock without ever removing the Tang (I HATED doing it with a hard mounted Tang Peep)

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[54bore]

And last pic, i need to find another old style Tall Hammer, this one works fine, but I'd prefer the old tall one, i know they are interchangeable cuz ive tried it, i just don't wanna rob one off My Hawken, or Renegades

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