TC's QLA Muzzle

[54bore]

Interesting read on the QLA i just came across

emrah wrote:
Maybe I should rephrase my title. I know what the QLA is, and I've seen the diagrams posted here by somebody (sorry, I can't remember who) that shows how the QLA is offset from the barrel rifling.

Here are my questions:

1. Are ALL T/C's with QLA's off-center? I don't understand how a barrel's rifling can be made (cut, forged, etc.), but for some reason, the QLA is off-center. I mean, it obviously goes in some sort of lathe or fixture, correct?

2. Even IF the QLA is off center, why does it affect conicals and not sabot rounds? Isn't the inside diameter of the QLA larger than the sabot or conical's diameter? In other words, isn't the QLA nothing more than a really deep recessed muzzle crown?

Thanks,

Emrah


This is copied and pasted here from another thread - see if this might help you with some of your questions..

The 'crown' at the bottom of the QLA - is exactly the problem. TC understands this and knows it. That is why they will tell that their rifles are for sabots and not conicals.

Here is what I am trying to convey...

The way TC chooses to bore and install lands and grooves is different that most other barrel manufactures. What they choose to works very well but on occasion the bore does not come out in the middle of the barrel. They have a +/- number of thousands that it can be off center. The fact that the bore might be off-center to the barrel has nothing to do with accuracy at this point. It will shoot sabots and conicals equally well. The problem is that for most consumers the cosmetics of the bore being off-center would not be acceptable. To hide this slight problem TC chose to install the QLA to cover the slight descrepency.

This does not happen in every TC bore it does in some.

Here is a picture of a cut off QLA... I believe in this picture you can see that bore is just slightly off center of the barrel.

Image

While on this end the QLA looks just fine at it install in the center of the bore.

Image

Then this is the picture of the bore recrowned and now able to shoot conicals as well as sabots, but notice it is still slightly off center...

Image

I talked to a TC Tech about all of this and from that conversation I created this simplistic picture as a representation of the problem.

Image

Again TC is aware of this and if you were to call them they would tell that their rifles are built for sabots.

I would also tell you that you do not find this in all TC/QLA rifles but enough of them to make you a little leary of the problem.

CVA uses and al lot of other companies, such a
Green Mountian Barrels choose to use a different type of boring to insure this problem does not exist. Yes CVA uses a form of QLA but the bore and the QLA are concentric - not a problem...
Keep Shooting Muzzleloaders - They are a Blast
Top

[54bore]

Attachment 196427

[idahoron]

I am not real wild about the single trigger. I did alter mine to help a little.

[54bore]

Ron, I REALLY like that finger hook! Did you use anything special? Or just cut a piece of metal from scratch and make the bend? I would love to do this to my New Englander, metal work and welding are not something i am comfortable with, i have a friend here that could do this for me tho. I copied your pics to show him. When you get use to a Renegade/Hawken with the finger hook it's tough to grab a rifle without one, i use the hooks to pull the rifle into my shoulder good and snug

[idahoron]

That is just mild steel. I brazed it and filled holes with two part epoxy. Then I painted it.

[Good Cheer]

New Englander with a .458 bore barrel, soft cast 45-70 boolits and plenty of FFg is a .
A longer barrel, maybe thirty inches, could be even better. Much more and it might get muzzle heavy.

[54bore]

That is just mild steel. I brazed it and filled holes with two part epoxy. Then I painted it.

This is definitely on the 'to do list' for my little New Englander!

[54bore]

New Englander with a .458 bore barrel, soft cast 45-70 boolits and plenty of FFg is a .
A longer barrel, maybe thirty inches, could be even better. Much more and it might get muzzle heavy.

Good Cheer, Do you do any work on your New Englander triggers? I pulled the sear today and used Flitz metal polish on a polishing wheel in my dremel and gave it a REALLY nice high lusture polish, it definitely feels better to me, but stil nothing like my set triggers, its tough for me to like the single non set trigger after a steady diet of shooting my set triggers. If this little New Englander had a Set trigger i could learn to like it a BUNCH better

[koger]

Why not buy a set or single set trigger, they work great, easy to install.

[725]

Question -- Has that finger hook ever grabbed anything (clothes, possibles bag, etc) and interfered with a shot? I sure like the look and like to shoot with that type of grip.

[54bore]

Why not buy a set or single set trigger, they work great, easy to install.

Set Trigger is in the works, Just found a like new set trigger and Renegade/Hawken Guard, Kill 2 birds with 1 stone here

[54bore]

Why not buy a set or single set trigger, they work great, easy to install.

Back to needing a set trigger, my deal fell through (outbid) Did TC make a Single Set trigger? I don't recall ever seeing one? Would the single you speak of be an easier instal than the double like the Hawken/Renegade? I can't imagine it being that major of an operation to do? If I don't feel comfortable with it i have a good friend here that i know can do it for me. I need to get out and shoot the New Englander this morning and see how much difference i notice from my high lustre polishing job on the sear end

[bubba.50]

I believe some people improve their T/C single-triggers by addin' or subtractin' metal from the trigger bar to get a better trigger to sear geometry. somethin' along the lines of waksupi's fix for the cva trigger listed above. I've got a couple extras that could be had cheap if anybody wants to experiment with it.

[idahoron]

Question -- Has that finger hook ever grabbed anything (clothes, possibles bag, etc) and interfered with a shot? I sure like the look and like to shoot with that type of grip.

I have never had it hook on anything. It is based off the finger hook on the two trigger models. If a person has trouble with a hawken you will probably have trouble with this one.

[idahoron]

I seem to remember that the parts in the lock and trigger are hardened but it is a surface harden. Once the hardness is gone the parts wear fast.

[54bore]

I seem to remember that the parts in the lock and trigger are hardened but it is a surface harden. Once the hardness is gone the parts wear fast.

I read that exact same thing, all i did was high lustre polish the tip of the sear with a polishing compound, its likely this rifle wont get shot enough to know if it's gonna wear or not. I might make a winter project out of this New Englander, Cutting the QLA off and recrowning the barrel would be the VERY first thing i did. I dont buy into the QLA, I think its a BAD deal, I have 4 other 54 Cals that shoot from good to exceptional, and NONE of them have the QLA muzzle.

[OverMax]

The so called problems a QLA causes are simply old wives tales.
Although a unaltered single bow trigger on White Mountain 54 I have keeps me from wanting to shoot it. There are a number of ways to smooth and reduce such a triggers let off but~~being a antiquated mechinsum many Smiths {hidden in the bushes here} familiar with those techniques will promote to a novice its often best not to tinker with things ~~like triggers..
Funny.~~Years ago there was a demand for adapted double set trigger frames retro fitter so to accommodate a single trigger only. As I recall such triggers for T/C Renegade & Hawken side-locks only >were sold by Fox Ridge Outfitters. And now Four Five Bore wants just the opposite for his New Englander. "Whats this world coming too."

[54bore]

The so called problems a QLA causes are simply old wives tales.
Although a unaltered single bow trigger on White Mountain 54 I have keeps me from wanting to shoot it. There are a number of ways to smooth and reduce such a triggers let off but~~being a antiquated mechinsum many Smiths {hidden in the bushes here} familiar with those techniques will promote to a novice its often best not to tinker with things ~~like triggers..
Funny.~~Years ago there was a demand for adapted double set trigger frames retro fitter so to accommodate a single trigger only. As I recall such triggers for T/C Renegade & Hawken side-locks only >were sold by Fox Ridge Outfitters. And now Four Five Bore wants just the opposite for his New Englander. "Whats this world coming too."

I dont know OverM, i just can't make myself trust it. Without Confidence in my gear i am defeated before i walk out the door, and i have zero confidence in the QLA muzzle. It really made me think the other day when my dad shot with me using my Vegetable Fibre wads, that rifle barrel has the QLA as well, Dad has proven the barrel to shoot very well (with wool felt wads) Then we try these Vegetable fibre Wads for something different and he couldn't of stayed on a sheet of plywood twice? I watched one shot part the weeds several feet low, hit the ground and tumbled through the target (50 yards)

I totally understand we changed Wads to try something different, BUT why will 4 different 54 Cals of mine YES 4 WITHOUT the QLA shoot either or? Vegetable fibre wads or the wool felt, it doesn't matter which i use? But in my dad's barrel with the QLA it will NOT shoot a Vegetable fibre wad, they fly all over the place (were talking several feet at just 50 yards!!) What else can it be besides the QLA?

This little New Englander has never shot anything worth a ****e, so I can't base anything off of it, but my dads rifle i can

[OverMax]

Staying on point with the QLA
You already know not all rifled B/P barrels are accustom to shooting hard/thick {smooth bore} wads.
Get the hack-saw out and cut that false muzzle off your Fathers rifle. I dare say your Father may not share the same thought.
As for me. The QLA eliminates my having to carry a short starter afield. And that's a good thing. Especially for this feller who has lost two short starters in a single hunting season. If you're still disappointed with the New Englander. Send it to Bubba. I'd most assuredly be willing to pay the postage costs on that generous deed.

[triggerhappy243]

could it be that the new englander bore is just a tad larger in diameter?