Smokeless Muzzleloader/Conversion

[iplaywithnoshoes]

I used to own a Savage 10ML-II and loved it. I sold it awhile back to pay for school. I've now been on a kick lately for a Smokeless barrel for my Encore. Does anyone have any recommendations on where to look? I've checked around Doug's Messages Boards and found Smokeless Muzzleloader Inc and Arrowheading Sporting Goods. I'm looking at a .50cal.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

shoe

[johnson1942]

smokeless muzzle loader inc. can be trusted. i have a custom 50 cal in 1/32 twist from them that was put on a H and R shotgun action. i cut off the sabot relief at the end of the barrel and shoot paperpatched bullets in it. i do not use smokeless powder in it as that is a **** shoot in any gun no matter what they say. i shoot black horn 209 powder and it literly can keep a hole slightly ragged at 100 yards. if you just want to shoot sabots the 1/32 twist they offer is much better than the 1/28 twist offered by others. they use douglas barrels which is the creme de le creme of all barrels. some day i may have them do a 1/18 twist 45 cal barrel with a 12 power scope on it and shoot 1000 yards paperpatch with it. they do goo work and they also do encore actions also. go for it you will like the results.

[NSB]

I've dealt with Arrowhead and he's a straight shooter who knows his stuff. Give him a call and he'll spend some time talking to you and answering your questions.

[10 ga]

Jeff Hankins has a top notch gunsmith operation for both CF and SML. See link
https://www.hankinscustomrifles.com/

You might also lurk about on the Hankins forum. http://hanksmessageboard.freeforums.net/

As for barrel, if you really want accuracy get a good one. For twist the 1/20 in 45 cal is really good and much favored, for 50 cal a 1/20 is also good, slower twist becomes problematic with heavier high BC bullets. You need the faster twist to shoot high BC bullets accurately. There are also a variety of ignition systems available that use 209 shotgun primers or large rifle primers.

As for SML being a **** shoot, it is all a guess until the trigger is pulled no mater what you shoot. I have been present at 3 different catastrophic firearm failures. Not involved but at the scene. 2 involved CF firearms and the other involved a caplock/black powder firearm. I have been around SML since 2007 and present when thousands of shots fired. Have not been present at a catastrophic failure of one of the SML guns. Like any firearm activity safety is first. It is certainly best to know what your limits are and stay within your personal comfort and safety zone. 10

[NSB]

The way to go is with a 45cal now days. Most of the people building guns are going to the 45. I rebarreled my Savage ML2 to a 45 and it was a nice improvement. You can shoot sabotless 45cal bullets or use sabots and shoot 40cal bullets. Either one would shoot sub moa. They shoot flatter and the MV is up near 2800fps.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

I have looked on Arrowhead's website and asked him a few questions. Luke was very helpful on the information but I am not sure if I can justify spending at least $1200 on a barrel, primer adapter, and full form sizing dies for sabotless bullets. There exists only one set of recommended load data for his barrels. that almost goes against all of my want to tinker a bit more. No doubt Luke makes an incredible product but I am not yet ready for a completely turn-key route. Smokeless Muzzleloader Inc seems to offer a solution where I have more flexibility in playing with loads and powders, despite the slower twist rate on the base barrel they offer.

Arrowhead and SMI use Brux and Douglas barrel respectively so I have no doubt that both are of absolutely top notch quality. I guess I don't want to spend that much money on a barrel in which the recommended loads kick harder than my .45-70. That's another $150-300 for a muzzle brake install and now I am in the price territory of a nice .338 Lapua.

Hankins looks great on paper as well but I'm sure there is a hefty lead time from how much exposure he gets as well. Usually that is a good sign for the business at least.

shoe

[koger]

Well, you could take my route! I bought a as new, TC Omega for $200, with wrench and scope base. I put on steel rings, and a NikonXR 300 Inline scope, with BDC's out to 300yds, at 50 yd intervals. Scope was on sale, $138 to my door. I had another Nikon, that I have shot black powder in for years, is a tackdriver with Harvester Brand copper jacketed, Plastic tip slugs, and their crush rib sabots, that load very easy. I went from 260 grain to 300grain 451 slugs in a Sabot, and 100grs of BH209. I did everything the powder company suggested, this setup shoots a ragged hole at 100yds, the bdc's are within 3/4" of the yardage on paper, out to 300, and shoots under 3" groups, consistently at 300yds.I shot a nice Mulie last year at 170, facing me, in the chest, bullet exited under the right ham, buck took 2 steps, stood on his head, DRT! Big bodied deer, when dressing him, Roger Johnson, "Johnson1942", on this board, stated that his sons 7mm magnum did not do that much damage. I have taken several deer with this setup150-250 out west and here in KY, across hay fields. I see great condition Omegas going for $200 and under regularly, this set up listed here is way cheaper than what you had expected, and will kill a deer as far as anyone could want to, or need to with a ML! Harvester bullets and sabots, are made her in KY, great folks, look them up or give them a call, they will answer any questions, or return your call if you leave a message!

[johnson1942]

your very modest koger, it was a 190 yard shot.

[NSB]

I have looked on Arrowhead's website and asked him a few questions. Luke was very helpful on the information but I am not sure if I can justify spending at least $1200 on a barrel, primer adapter, and full form sizing dies for sabotless bullets. There exists only one set of recommended load data for his barrels. that almost goes against all of my want to tinker a bit more. No doubt Luke makes an incredible product but I am not yet ready for a completely turn-key route. Smokeless Muzzleloader Inc seems to offer a solution where I have more flexibility in playing with loads and powders, despite the slower twist rate on the base barrel they offer.

Arrowhead and SMI use Brux and Douglas barrel respectively so I have no doubt that both are of absolutely top notch quality. I guess I don't want to spend that much money on a barrel in which the recommended loads kick harder than my .45-70. That's another $150-300 for a muzzle brake install and now I am in the price territory of a nice .338 Lapua.

Hankins looks great on paper as well but I'm sure there is a hefty lead time from how much exposure he gets as well. Usually that is a good sign for the business at least.

shoe

Arrowhead also sells McGowen target barrels. You can get a target grade barrel, new breechplug, and barrel nut for WAY under $1200 and it will shoot 1moa or less. You DO NOT have to spend over $1200 to get a great shooting gun. Full form sizing dies are not necessary and if you did want one, you can use the die on any single stage reloading press you already own. You need to do some more research. When my gun was "converted" to 45cal it cost me less than five hundred dollars and it shot sub moa at 100yds (it already shot pretty close to it when it was a 50 cal). Recoil is substantialy reduced in 45cal, muzzle velocity is greatly increased, and there are a ton of options in powder, sabot/sabotless, etc at your disposal. You simply do not have to use any one recipe as per your statement. Again, read and study some more on this subject. Dougsmessageboard is a wealth of info and lots of people there will guide you along.