Martini Cadet Ideas

[HATCH]

I have cadets in 32-20, 22 Hornet and 38sp/357mag.

I haven't checked to see it it's 357mag or just 38sp.

I also have a larger martini in 45-70!

[Boz330]

I have cadets in 32-20, 22 Hornet and 38sp/357mag.

I haven't checked to see it it's 357mag or just 38sp.

I also have a larger martini in 45-70!

If you put them next to each other in the safe they tend to multiply.

Bob

[HATCH]

LOL, I don't want them to multiply. I don't want the ones I have now. Haha


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[Ballistics in Scotland]

They do follow you home. I bought this BSA thick-walled target rifle for a project last year (5.6x50mm Rimmed) but it still shoots so well at 50m it would be a shame!

[IMG]thahttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/BSA%2012-15A_zpsuq0exhcs.jpg[/IMG]

That is probably the 12/15 model, which had the notch at the rear of the receiver squared to fit a permanently erect rear sight. The straight-gripped 12 also had the thick sides, but a more conventionally shaped rear receiver, to which a tang receiver sight was often fitted.

http://rifleman.org.uk/BSA_Model_12.html

The Martinis are among the easiest of rifles to restock for yourself, especially if you are content with a straight stock. Here is my stock drilling.... thing. As usual with things that have a hole in them, it is easiest to make the inside first, and then the outside around it.

[Sur-shot]

Well, lets see, I have a 218 Bee, a 222R, a 225 Win Mag switch barrel, two 357 Max guns.
The 357 Max is not a real problem on ejection, it can be a problem on loading if you do not use rifle bullets like the 180gr. The 225 is the largest case diameter that you can safely put into the barrel shank / chamber on the Cadet action. The 7.62x39 or a variant, like the 6.5 Grendel would make a fine cambering, the trick is for the cartridge to make the turn into the chamber when loading. Look at the body of the 357 Max for length to figure out a cartridge with a straight wall that will make the turn. The 225 makes the turn with ease. These are some of the rifles I built, the maple is the 357 Max / 225 Win Mag switch barrel.
Ed

[Boz330]

LOL, I don't want them to multiply. I don't want the ones I have now. Haha


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If you want to sell that hornet shoot me a price, I might be interested.

Bob

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The trouble with the 7.62x39, and the convenience of its off-the-peg dies and reamer, is that I don't believe there is any rimmed case that can be used to make it. While rimless extractors can be made for the small Martini, I would prefer not to, and I think it can be avoided for about every calibre they make barrels in.

A good rimless conversion is easiest for the rimfires. At least the late ones have a full-width extractor all the way to the top, with a semicircular cutout for the cartridge, while the true Cadets have two limbs extending on either side of a lump of receiver metal. It would be possible to plane this away, using a home-made chisel bevelled on one side only, and a steel block with a growing succession of shims moving it forward in the receiver mortice.

A cartridge I don't believe anybody has mentioned is the .270REN, which is just what you get by straightening out the .22 Hornet. There must be plenty of takeoff .270 barrels somewhere, nor much worn beyond the throat. In Australia it should neatly bridge a gap we don't really have in the UK, being suitable both for birds and rabbits and for the smaller sizes of those bouncing things.

I don't think we need the thicker sides of the late rimfire for strength, with any cartridge and load within the realms of sanity. But they look better, if the stock isn't to be rather thin. Von Gruff's sublime wood, above, looks very good with its step down from receiver width, and drop points. But I think that style needs more width than the Australian Cadets.

If I ever felt inclined to use extreme pressures in the Cadets which have Francotte's Patent Cocking Indicator, I believe I would dispense with that and weld up or silver solder a filler block into its recess in the side of the breechblock.

[drhall762]

Think I have pretty much settled on the .327 Fed Mag. Already have a Bunny Gun in .32 S&W Long so the dies are in place.

[Sur-shot]

I owned a 270 Ren, in an XL, the case is a Jim Rock invention (RPM, maker of the XL), it suffers from lack of capacity. Better is the 7mm max (357 max necked to 7mm), I also owned one of those in an XL. There was a whole line of these cartridges with the 7mm being about the best of the line. Now I did not mention the 30 Herrett because the 7.62x39 is more common, but the 30 H is or can be loaded to easily duplicate 7.62x39 round and is based on the 30-30 or 225.
I have had in hand the rimless extractor for a Cadet, the one side spring loaded with a brad as a hinge pin, made in the 50s or 60s, it is OK but would be a project to build without a starting full extractor, plus finding or building a plain extractor as a start for a Cadet is like finding or making hens teeth. I understand the little spring often broke. It is the one spare part that is difficult to find in the US. I have welded some up and recut them. Of course with a full up shop, now, I could probably build one or two 2 prong type extractors on my Bridgeport with a bit of time. I am going to retire fairly soon, so perhaps......
Ed

PS: when you switch from the original 310 cartridge block face to a high pressure cartridge like the 357 Max, you need to reduce the diameter of the firing pin and put a step down bushing in the block face, then set up the firing so the pin stops on the interior of the block, not the interior of the bushing, then replace the firing pin spring with a new spring so you eliminate primer blow out. That original BP firing pin setup in the Cadet is very low pressure and oversized and will give you problems, otherwise.

If you are working on one of these by hand, the best way to cut the end of the barrel shank for the extractor is to use a 1911 slide file. That file only cuts on one side or one edge at a time. Screw the barrel in, set to length, mark the cut points and remove the barrel. It is pretty simple once you work on one. Just a word of caution, do not use a live round as a dummy, it will fire when you close the action without a trigger.
Ed

[drhall762]

The guy that had this ahead of me, or somewhere along the line set a bushing. He just didn't drill it. I'll just set it up in the mill with a gauge pin and drill it myself. Back in the day, when I was working on 1911s, I used the trusty surface grinder to make my specialty files. Just ground off the edge(s) or face(s) I didn't want and made the edges parallel at the same time. I kind of miss industry and the tech schools, always such nice CNC equipment that I can't/won't buy. My manual shop is a lot slower but I am not in production and what I do is for me.

[Eddie Southgate]

.218 Bee , .256 Winchester , .22 K Hornet would be my first choices .

Eddie

[M.A.D]

My baby in 256 Winchester, I make a nice 70 grain soft nose from used 22lr cases , 26.5 inch barrel. best little bullpup bunny buster

[barrabruce]

Can't see the 7.62x39 good as a conversion since some of that steel cased stuff runs very high in the pressure department so I have been told.
No-one I have spoken too likes any of the rimless solutions.
If you are going to get the case flicked past the extractor it will be when you are looking at a pig with intentions to sharpen his teeth on your sorry posterior......apparently......any other time no dramas.

Me I'll stick to a 30 something cal as I have moulds already.

I think the 30-30 wesson would be ideal if I could get a several hundred cases cheap.

[drhall762]

Can't see the 7.62x39 good as a conversion since some of that steel cased stuff runs very high in the pressure department so I have been told.
No-one I have spoken too likes any of the rimless solutions.
If you are going to get the case flicked past the extractor it will be when you are looking at a pig with intentions to sharpen his teeth on your sorry posterior......apparently......any other time no dramas.

Me I'll stick to a 30 something cal as I have moulds already.

I think the 30-30 wesson would be ideal if I could get a several hundred cases cheap.

Some of what I was looking at was dollars. When I compare my two primary choices, the .327 Fed Mag and the .30-30 Wesson it works out to be a break-even proposition. Maybe favors the .30-30 Wesson a bit actually.

I have a good .30 caliber barrel and it will stabilize the heavier bullets of the .30-30 Wesson. A two die reloading set from CH4D for the .30-30 Wesson is only $87.36. Brass is easily made by running .357 Maximum brass through the resizing die.

The difference in cost between buying dies and buying a new .32 caliber barrel should cover my new .357 Maximum cases.

I think considering the fine reputation and the other factors I listed the .30-30 Wesson is the winner.

[drhall762]

I love bull-pups. What action is that built on. Care to share some more views of that nifty rifle?

[gunnie]

Certainly some nice looking Martini's in this post.
I currently own two original 310Cadets - one stamped Queensland and the other Victoria. Both shoot very weel with my loads based on Bertram brass, Hawksbury 122gn cast and aa charge of ADI AP70N. I was using AR2205 but found that it left granules of unfired powder in the chamber/barrel. The AP70N burns fully but is a 'dirty' powder.

I also own two customs - one in 22K-Hornet and the other in 17 Ackley Hornet. The 17 was set up for left hander but I still use it either side.

At the momnet I am in the process of buying another Cadet though this one is chambered in 357Mag and is a bit of a frankenstein looking thing. Once I've got it in hnad I'll get some pics up on here.

I've also got an action that I plan on having made up in 20-222Rimmed. It's a simple wildcat that won't require selling off your kidney to pay for dies and brass. My local 'smithy supplies his own barrels, so one in 20cal at a finished length of 24" should be right. Then simply run the 222Rimmed reamer in to cut the chamber. Then he'll shorten a set of FLS/neck & seat dies in 204Ruger, to suit the 222Rimmed length. Job done! Should be able to work with a 32gn pill over a reasonable load for about 3400-3600fps without stressing the case/action or extraction issues.

That 30Badger has also caught my eye and could well be another project when I get my hands on the next Cadet action.

[drhall762]

Gunni, I was reading through your response and was saying "WOW! This guy found the mother load of Cadets." then I realized you were in Queensland. Guess they are a tad easier to find their than in the States. I'd like to get my paws on some .222 Rimmed brass to make into .30-30 Wesson. Does a better job than .357 Maximum. I can get it here for about $2 US a piece but that's a little steep for me. Can't wait to see your 20-222 and hear how it shoots.

[Gunnie63]

Cheers Dave. The Martini Cadets are fairly common over here. Where I'm buying the 357Mag Cadet, from they have two others on the rack - a 22LR & a 7X33Sako. The brass for the 7x33 is a tad hard to get and costly whereas the Bertram 222R is $25 for 20. Bought two bags on the weekend.

The 20cal version is very straightforward. One pass through the shortened 204Ruger fls die & the 222R brass is good to load.

At some stage I'll look at having another one built in 25cal. Just not decided she'd whether I'll go 256Win Mag or 25-35.

I also have one of the Khyber Pass copy large frame Martini Henry actions that I was planning on making up as a 405W. But a lot of folk have advised against it due to the quality of the metal etc. So was thinking maybe a 22 rimfire or 22Mag to keep the pressures low. Would be a bit of a curiosity if anything.

[M.A.D]

Cheers Dave. The Martini Cadets are fairly common over here. Where I'm buying the 357Mag Cadet, from they have two others on the rack - a 22LR & a 7X33Sako. The brass for the 7x33 is a tad hard to get and costly whereas the Bertram 222R is $25 for 20. Bought two bags on the weekend.

The 20cal version is very straightforward. One pass through the shortened 204Ruger fls die & the 222R brass is good to load.

At some stage I'll look at having another one built in 25cal. Just not decided she'd whether I'll go 256Win Mag or 25-35.

I also have one of the Khyber Pass copy large frame Martini Henry actions that I was planning on making up as a 405W. But a lot of folk have advised against it due to the quality of the metal etc. So was thinking maybe a 22 rimfire or 22Mag to keep the pressures low. Would be a bit of a curiosity if anything.

Oh care to share who has the Cadet in 7x33 Sako for sale? If you tell me, I will let you borrow my 256 win reamer....

[gunnie]

MAD, I'll give the guys a call in the morning to see if it's still there. PM me your phone number and I'll text you Dean's number.