Is the 44mag more intrinsically accurate than the 45LC?

[bigted]

Thats what im saying minuteshaver.

The 44 russian was offered in the colt model p, and that would be as close as a test you could get cause you cant get a smith in 45 colt. You'd have to get 2 of the same model gun from the same year range, but with 2 different chamberings. Maybe set it up with handloads made close to original specs as possible, and assembled by the same person, so the attention to detail would be the same. Then fired from each of the respective weapons from sand bags. I'd bet the 44 would beat the 45 by a good margin. Be pretty neat.

Well now i disagree. I have just closed a deal on a Smith model 25-5 in the venerable old Colt round ... Yep i really do like the 45 Colt.

So a feller could buy a 29 and a 25-5 of the same year ... Or ... Two super blackhawks in both chambers ... Or ... Two redhawks chambered in the two culprits for doing the dual estimate to determine which is more accurate or easy to load for or to handle when shooting ... I would take the old Colt round any time over the 44 and i have owned and shot both for years. Finally gotten rid of all the 44's and now have only 45 Colts in the house. Not casting stones at the 44's ... Just as with the 357's ... Just not my cup o tea.

[Lloyd Smale]

I do have 45s and have killed quite a few game animals with them but still prefer a good 44 mag. Whats not to like about the 44 mag. It handles and shoots accurately with 225-250 grain cast bullets at velocitys as low as 800 fps (something the 45 colt stuggles with) It also shoots 340s at 1200 fps in a good strong gun. I took a 5.5 bisley to the linebaugh seminar about 10 years ago with that ballistic cast 340 load and out of about 50 guns participating in the penetration testing was beat only by ONE 475 linebaugh load in penetration. there was lots of 45 colts, 475s and 500s both standard and maximums. there and also a few big rifles like my own 458 mag along with a couple other 458s. A 458 lott, a 416 rem and a 375h&h. The reason it probably won was the excellent bc of that 340. It made a lot of people there shake there heads and a few made shamed me into shooting it again thinking it was a fluke. So with a proper load the 44 is everything the 45 is. Brass, bullets, molds are easier to find and a better selection can be found. Not that 45 colt is hard to find but the 44 is just easier. Full power ammo is in about any hardware store in the country if your the type that might need it. Non issue for me because I just don't buy factory ammo.

I think the biggest draw to the 45 for people is nostalsia. It has history. That and every gun writer in the country 20 years ago got on the 45 is the "cool" round for gun nuts kick because it sold articles. They wanted to make you think if you didn't drink the koolaid your just weren't a proper gun nut. A few people saw through this and stuck with the 44mag because all bs aside its a more versatile round and you can talk inherent accuracy or intrinsic accuracy but in REAL WORLD accuracy the 44 mag is just easier to get to shoot accurately and the guns produced that you can buy in the gun shop have a much better chance of shooting that 1 inch group we all look for then the same guns in 45. Like I said I still use my 45 colts but mostly for what they accel at. That's shoot 300 grain and heavier cast bullets at speeds greater then 1100 fps. They do that well. So well in fact that ive gotten rid of my 454s. That said like I showed earlier the 44 will do the same thing but who wants to own only one caliber. I own handguns in about every caliber handguns are chambered in. Sure don't think I'm a bit cooler at the range the days I have a 45 colt there. If I had to see every handgun in the safe and could have only one for small game, big game, self defense and just plinking it would be a 44 mag. Cool is as cool does!

[fivegunner]

After reading all the post, I hope that the price of Rugers in .45 COLT goes' down , So I can have a few more of them !. I own and shoot the .45 colt and the 44 mag . like them both , But you guys are right the .45 colt guns take a little more work to make them shoot as well as most .44mags right out of the box . My 2 cents:2:

[Lloyd Smale]

yup I'm with you. I sure wouldn't pass on a 45 colt at a good price. A real gun nut couldn't live without a couple of both!

After reading all the post, I hope that the price of Rugers in .45 COLT goes' down , So I can have a few more of them !. I own and shoot the .45 colt and the 44 mag . like them both , But you guys are right the .45 colt guns take a little more work to make them shoot as well as most .44mags right out of the box . My 2 cents:2:

[JSH]

A very interesting thread for sure gents. It looks as if most all angles have been touched on.
The OP going with the direction of a SSP, is sure a fair bit off from a wheel gun. Sending them a dummy to measure is fine. I hope it was of a specific brass and length. Along with the thoughts of the various sizers, I would come up with a piece of fired brass and see what your dies size it back down too. Or even better if the folks at MGM will take a look at your dies and go from there.

I was one of the slow ones getting on the 45 colt wagon. I know have a couple, both Rugers and years apart. Both have their likes and dislikes, and I doubt there will ever be a universal load that the both shoot acceptable to my wants.

The question on accuracy, which is more accurate. First off what do YOU consider accurate? I won't knock anyone's findings, but I just don't spend much time at 25 yards. 25 yards gives me a fair idea of what it is going to do. If it is not a 2-21/2" group at the largest, it is time for me to do some more home work. Truth be known I don't want over a 3-4" group at 100.

I have not flung near as much lead down range as many. But I have seen groups at 25, not even have a decent pattern at 50 and beyond. Yet on the flip side I have seen groups at 100-200 that were excellent, yet if one had shot them at 25 yards they would have skipped over that particular load.

As mentioned on the sizing dies. I have several of each for 357,41,44 and 45. I never could figure out why folks had a half dozen different dies in the same caliber. Well when I started in on the 41 I was all but humbled. It just had me stumped,back to the drawing board. I read and read, asked more questions and then some more. I ended up with a couple of Mia matched sets of steel dies for the 41, success!!
The 45 showed the same trait with dies. Though I still have not paid hands on a set of steel 45 colt dies, I have several odds and ends that are making good 45 colt ammo.

Not saying to buy the Redding 45 colt dies, but it may be worth at least looking at their angle. Depends on what your fired brass tells you. The 45 Colt to my understanding of the original, was NOT a straight walled case but a tapered case. I suspect that because of the BP loads being a big influence.
Jeff

[Silver Jack Hammer]

The .45 Colt's was splitting brass in my SAA's when I full length resized. Neck resizing put end to that problem. The split was lengthwise on the brass. I figured the cause was the Colt's slight taper in their chambers. The slight taper would be a good thing on the dusty frontier with black powder. However my neck resized cartridges for the Colt's SAA's wouldn't chamber in my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt's.

[shorty500]

The .45 Colt's was splitting brass in my SAA's when I full length resized. Neck resizing put end to that problem. The split was lengthwise on the brass. I figured the cause was the Colt's slight taper in their chambers. The slight taper would be a good thing on the dusty frontier with black powder. However my neck resized cartridges for the Colt's SAA's wouldn't chamber in my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt's.

My old m-25-5 from the mid-70s has the older maximum SAAMI dimension chambers tapering from .490 at rear to about .485 in the neck area. Huge .458 throats to go along with it. Have an oversize NEI version of the popular RCBS .45-270SAA that has a bit shorter crimp to meplat length and drops @283 using air cooled COWW metal. I size them to .458 and neck size the Remington cases that I use to segregate from other loadings. Burning 20grains of H4227 spits them out of the 8-3/8inch tube just over 1150fps and with the rear sight bottomed out it zeros at 75yards and has shown fantastic groups out to 100. Have used it for lots of rock busting way out there too

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I've cast the RCBS .45 270-SAA with various alloys and loaded various powders. I get the tightest groups at 25 yards with it but it will not deliver at 100 yards with my 3rd gen. Colt's SAA's.

[bigted]

i am mostly a nostalgia groupy myself. i thrive on the old 1873 year rifles, revolvers, and lever carbines/rifles ... namely the 45-70 gubberment, 45 Colt, and the 44-40 WCF. have not delved into the old 44-40 yet ... haven't had all the fun i can stand with the 45-70's and 45 Colts. i do like the old 45's in all guises however i am easy to entertain and it just keeps on giving for me.

speaking of nostalgia ... my mounting collection of Cap n Ball's is getting to the Junky stage and i dearly love to spend an afternoon blasting away with em then coming home and spending some more grand time cleaning and fondling them till the wife asks me if i could possibly leave my mistress and come inside to eat.

my 44 mag's were magic on paper out to 300 yards and fun to play with but the recoil began to hurt my hand with the snazzy 4 inch barrel {had two ... a 686 early model and an old 29 without the dash anything} that i could hit anything i set my eyeball on. but same with the 357 Mag ... very accurate but never got the mind's juices flowin like the old 45's do. im just an old 45 junky and plan to never return to the modern rounds. bout the best modern wise will be this Smith 25-5 in 45 Colt , an 8-3/8ths barrel. boy lookin forward to playin with it.

good luck with your single shot 44 Mag. im bettin it will deliver what your lookin for as has been touted many times here and other places.

[str8wal]

In a word, NO

[Bazoo]

I finally got around to bringing my cartridges of the world with me to where I have internet access. Here is

Cartridges of the world, 5th, 44 Magnum (rifle), page 82.

Excerpt

"With a scope sight and a good single shot or bolt action, the .44 magnum is capable of excellent accuracy, and I have seen some 1-inch five-shot groups made with such rifles. " ~ Frank C. Barnes

[DanWalker]

I ordered an 8 1/2" long 45 barrel with a 1/16 twist from MGM last week. Got a 3 week wait for it now. I sent them a dummy round to cut the chamber to. I will keep you posted as to my results. Should make a fine antelope and elk whacker.

[Drm50]

I have never shot a 45Colt rifle. I have owned several 44 carbines & rifles and they all shot 1" at
60yds. I have several 44mgs revolvers and 45Colts. I don't keep a gun if it doesn't shoot. The
44mg and 45Colt is like comparing apples to oranges as far as a cartridge. One of the old gun
scribes one made the statement," there are no bad cartridges- only bad guns." Magnums have
there benifits, higher velocity = longer range. Think about this, in Bullseye shooting you don't see
many guys using magnums. The 38sp-44sp-45Colt are the calibres of choice. Some guns can be
made to shoot by working up a load, other guns won't shoot no matter what you do. Accuracy is
in the individual gun, not the cartridge.

[ejcrist]

I am asking a simple question. All things being equal, does the 44 cartridge have any advantage in pure mechanical accuracy over a 45LC? I don't think it does, but was wanting others opinions.

No. Absolutely no advantage whatsoever. I have several, and like with any revolver, if you load/fit everything just right, and do any tuning if necessary the 45 Colt will perform just as good or better than the 44 mag.