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Thread: Lee Pacesetter 7.62x54r Load info

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Lee Pacesetter 7.62x54r Load info

    Hey, I'm gathering materials to start loading 7.62x54r. I bought a pacesetter die set for my 30-30 and it came with some handy staring loads for jacketed and cast bullets, however my 6.5x55 set only has info for jacketed. I'm wondering if anyone has the Lee pacesetter die in 7.62x54 and whether it came with cast load info? Unfortunately I can only mail order them right now so I can't check. Otherwise I'm thinking of just getting one of those Loadbook USA things. Thanks for your help!

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    I have that Lee set, it's at least 15 years old, could be 25?
    anyway, the Data just specs bullet weight ...no mention of jacketed, Lead, FN, or SP

    I'd guess Lee offers cast boolit data for 30-30 due to the cartridge's history...and probably only offers jacketed data for 6.5x55 and 7.62x54R for same reason.

    I'd strongly suggest getting the Lyman castbullet handbook #4, besides all the helpful chapters on "how to", the data is priceless, many with pressure listed.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master Cowboy_Dan's Avatar
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    Just checked mine, much newer than JonB's, and all the data is for J-words and the X bullet.
    "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for everyone to believe anything on insufficient evidence."
    -W. K. Clifford "The Ethics of Belief"

    "They hate you if you're clever, and they despise a fool."
    -John Lennon "A Working Class Hero"

  4. #4
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy_Dan View Post
    Just checked mine, much newer than JonB's, and all the data is for J-words and the X bullet.
    Thank you , thats very helpful. Is the Lyman manual the only one with cast info for the cartridge or are there others?

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

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    If your gonna shoot cast bullets, get a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Lots of data for the 7.62x54r...

    I'm not at home to check my other manuals, but my Lyman 49th Edition has data for cast and jacketed. If I were on a budget, I'd get the Lyman 50th Edition first, then a manual from the bullet manufacturer of my choice (Hornady bullets Hornady manual, Speer bullets, Speer manual, etc.)...
    Last edited by mdi; 05-26-2017 at 12:26 PM.
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    there are other manuals with cast data.
    the RCBS cast bullet manual
    and
    Lee's 2nd edition
    are two I use also, but I always look in the Lyman castbullet handbooks first.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Larry Gibson had worked up some good loads on this forum. His light loads of 3.2 of bullseye in 308 ,30/06 and 7.62x54 with light lead pistol bullets work very good. At 25 and 50 yards they shoot as good as a target 22lr. I have been using factory 100 gr cast boolets .now I got two of the lee molds to try the 311 2r for my 308 and the tl 314 90 swc for for my 308 and the molsen and my enfield. I can cast them out of ww alloy mixed with pure. The few I have tried shoot really good. Every person I have let shoot this load are amazed at the non kick in the 308 like a big 22. They also are about the same noise as target 22 in a long barrel.

  8. #8
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    Be aware the expander in the Lee dies is for a 0.308" bullet

  9. #9
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomme boy View Post
    Be aware the expander in the Lee dies is for a 0.308" bullet
    A lee universal case expanding die should take care of that though?

  10. #10
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    Isn't the Lee "Universal Expanding Dies" just used for flaring the case mouth? The expander ball is what controls the neck tension...
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdi View Post
    Isn't the Lee "Universal Expanding Dies" just used for flaring the case mouth? The expander ball is what controls the neck tension...
    You're correct. They really need to change the name of the Univeral "Expanding" Die.

  12. #12
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    there are other manuals with cast data.
    the RCBS cast bullet manual
    and
    Lee's 2nd edition
    are two I use also, but I always look in the Lyman castbullet handbooks first.
    Does the Lee Manual have many good cast loads with 7.62, or would I be better off with the Lyman?

  13. #13
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomme boy View Post
    Be aware the expander in the Lee dies is for a 0.308" bullet
    What die set do you guys use for the round when using cast rounds then?

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    The Lyman manual is the way to go.
    I just checked the Lee for 7.62x54R, out of the 50+ loads, there was only 4 loads for cast (all Accurate brand powders). Lee doesn't create any load data, they gather it from others sources and compile it.

    Dies:
    My old Lee die set has two expanders (.308 and .311). I don't know if the set originally came with two or not? I bought this set used, at a gunshow. Anyway, if the Lee set you buy doesn't have a .311, you can order a .311 expander from Lee.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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    Call Lee and gripe at them for using the wrong expander. They sent me one from a 303 Brit. Plus I also use a RCBS neck expander to flare the mouth and expand to what I need. I had a friend that works in a tool and die house and he made me copies of the RCBS in 0.309", 0.310", 0.311", 0.312", and 0.313". They cover all of my 30 31 cal guns.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Totally agree with Jonb. Some of the best money I ever spent was on the Lyman #3 and #4 manuals.

    #3 because virtually every caliber has a good recipe for Red Dot powder and cast.

    #4 because it has a lot more cast choices and some Lee molds covered. Not that I would not like to see more, a LOT more.

    When I got mine I spent a few hours, put "tabs" in the correct places for the calibers I load. So in a few seconds for any of my normal calibers I can flip open the book and be looking at the data.

    I do also collect data from the internet, but I also cross check that data against what is in the Lyman manuals. Anything that seems out of line, does not get added to my notes.

    If your going to shoot cast, in more than 1 caliber, get the Lyman cast manual. Its worth it.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by thirtythirty View Post
    Does the Lee Manual have many good cast loads with 7.62, or would I be better off with the Lyman?
    I have a Lee manual, but it's the last one I look at when researching loads. It's too "generic" for my uses. If I'm looking for a cast bullet load, I'll go with a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook or one of the "Editions".
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  18. #18
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    Don't overlook "The Load" for the Mosin

    "The Load" is 13 Grains of Red Dot"

    By C.E. Harris, Revised 2-16-94

    My success in economizing by using up leftover shotshell powder has changed my
    approach to handloading. I had a caddy of Red Dot, and no longer reloaded
    shotshells, so asked myself, "what can I do with it?" My shooting is now
    mostly high-power rifle. I needed several hundred rounds a week to practice
    offhand, reloading, and working the bolt in sitting and prone rapid, but didn't
    want to burn out my barrel or my wallet. Powder used to be cheap, but today is
    $20/lb. (or more), so cost is a factor in component choice.

    I used to ignore pistol or shotgun powders in reduced rifle loads for the usual
    reasons: the risk of accidental double-charges, fears of erratic ignition, and
    concerns with maintaining accuracy, and reduced utility with a low-power load.
    Still, the caddy of Red Dot kept "looking at me" from the corner. Would it
    work? Looking at data in the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual No. 1 and the Lyman Cast
    Bullet Handbook suggested it would, so I tried it, much to my delight! Red Dot
    is bulky, compared to the usual rifle powders used in .30-'06-size cases. It
    occupies more powder space in typical charges than common "reduced load" rifle
    powders, such as #2400, IMR4227, IMR4198 or RL-7. The lower bulk density of Red
    Dot adequately addresses my safety concerns because it makes an accidental
    double charge far less likely.

    After considerable experimentation, my friends and I found "The Load" IS 13
    grains of Hercules Red Dot, in any FULL SIZED rifle case of .30 cal. or larger.
    "The Load" has distinct advantages over more expensive alternatives, within
    certain limitations, which are:

    1. The case must be LARGER than the .300 Savage or .35 Remington.

    2. The rifle must be of MODERN (post 1898) design, suitable for smokeless
    powder, with a bore size of .30 cal. or larger.

    3. The bullet weight must be within the NORMAL range for the given cartridge.

    4. Inert fillers such as Dacron, kapok or are NOT RECOMMENDED! (Nor are they
    necessary).

    Within these restrictions I have now engraved in stone, "The Load" works! The
    bullet may be either jacketed or cast. Gaschecked cast bullets required in the
    .30 cals., otherwise you will get leading, but plainbased ones work fine in the
    8mm Mauser or larger.

    "The Load" has shown complete success in the .30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.65
    Argentine, .308 Win., 7.62x54R Russian, .30-'06, 8x57 and .45-70
    (strong-actioned rifles such as the 1886 Winchester or 1895 Marlin -- 12 grs.
    is maximum for 400 gr. bullets in the Trapdoor Springfield -- Ed.) Though I
    have not tried it, I have no doubt that "The Load" would work well in other
    cartridges fitting these parameters, such as the .35 Whelen, .358 Winchester,
    .375 H&H or .444 Marlin, based on RCBS and Lyman published data.

    "The Load" fills 50% or more of a .308 Win or .30-'06 case. The risk of an
    accidental double charge is greatly reduced, because the blunder is immediately
    obvious if you visually check, powder fill on EVERY CASE, as you should
    whenever handloading! A bulky powder measures more uniformly, because normal
    variation in the measured volume represents a smaller percentage of the charge
    weight.

    Red Dot's granulation is somewhat less coarse than other flake powders of
    similar burning rate, such as 700-X, which aids metering. Its porous, uncoated
    flakes are easily ignited with standard primers. So-called "magnum" primers do
    no harm in cases larger than the .30-'06, but are neither necessary nor
    recommended in smaller ones. I DO NOT recommend pistol primers in reduced rifle
    loads, because weak primers may cause erratic ignition, and their thinner cups
    can perforate more easily, causing gas leakage and risk of personal injury!

    The velocities obtained with 13 grs. of Red Dot appear mild, but "The Load" is
    no pipsqueak! In a case like the .308 or .30-'06, you get (from a 24" sporter
    barrel) about 1450 f.p.s. with a 200- gr. cast bullet, 1500 with a 170-gr., or
    1600 with a 150-gr. cast load. "The Load" is fully comparable to "yesterday's
    deer rifle", the .32-40, and provides good expansion of cheap, soft alloys
    (10-13 BHN) at woods ranges. Jacketed bullet velocities with "The Load" are
    about 120-150 f.p.s. less than a lubricated lead bullet of the same weight.

    Longer-barreled military rifles pick up a few feet per second, but "The Load"
    starts to slow down in barrels over 28", such as the M91 Moisin-Nagant and long
    Krags or 98a Mausers.

    My preferred alloy in the .30 cals. is a mixture of 3-5 lbs. of .22 backstop
    scrap to 1 lb. of salvaged linotype. Wheelweights also work well, as do soft
    "Scheutzen" alloys such as 1:25 tin/lead. in bores of 8 mm or larger. "The
    Load" drives soft- cast .30-cal. to 8 mm bullets fast enough to get expansion,
    but without fragmenting. These out-penetrate factory .30-30 softpoints, and
    kill medium game up to 150 lbs. well at short ranges up to 100 yards, when
    placed accurately. In medium and large bores like the .375 H&H or .45-70, "The
    Load" gives typical black powder ballistics for the bore. A 255-265 gr. cast
    bullet in the .375 H&H approximates the .38-55 at 1330 f.p.s. Soft 300- 405-gr.
    cast bullets are pushed at 1300-1350 f.p.s. from a 22" barrel .45-70, sporter
    are very effective on deer at woods ranges. Cast bullets over .35 cal. do not
    have to expand appreciably to work well on game if blunt and heavy for their
    caliber.

    The Load" works well with jacketed bullets, giving somewhat lower velocities
    than with cast lead, due to less effective obturation and greater friction in
    the bore. The 85-gr. or 100-gr. Hornady or 90-gr. Sierra JHP for the .32 H&R
    Mag. revolver, or the Remington 100-gr. .32-20 softpoint bullet become mild,
    but destructive varmint loads at 1600 f.p.s. from a .308 or '06.

    If you substitute a stiffly jacketed 110-gr. .30 Carbine softpoint bullet,
    designed for higher velocities than imparted by "The Load", you have a
    non-destructive "coup de gras", small game or wild turkey load which shoots
    close to your deer rifle's normal zero, but at 25 yards! A more accurate and
    effective small game or varmint load uses a flat-nosed 150-gr. Page Ranking 170-gr.
    .30-30 bullet instead. These don't expand at the 1400-1450 f.p.s. obtained
    with "The Load", but their larger frontal area improves killing power compared
    to roundnoses or spitzers.

    I have use pulled GI .30 caliber Ball, and Match bullets with "The Load" for
    cheap 200-yd. NMC boltgun practice. Accuracy is equal to arsenal loads, but I
    use my 600-yard sight dope at 200 yards. I expect 5-6" ten-shot, iron-sight
    groups at 200 yards using M2 or M80 pulled bullets and about 3-4" for the M72
    or M118 Match bullets. I use these mostly in bolt-action rifles, but they can
    be single-loaded for offhand or slow-fire practice ion the Garand as well.
    These .30 cal. pulls shoot fine in the .303 British or 7.62x54 Russian, despite
    their being a bit small, because the fast-burning Red Dot upsets them into the
    deeper grooves. The 173-gr. Match .30 cal. boattail bullets may not shoot as
    well at these low velocities as lighter flat bases in the 12" twist .308 Win.
    barrels, but they do quite well in ten- inch twist barrels such as in the '06,
    7.62 Russian, .303 British and 7.65 Argentine.

    The longer bore time of these 1400 f.p.s. (typical 170-180-gr. jacketed load
    velocity) practice loads makes errors in follow- through apparent, a great
    practice and training aid. The light recoil and lower report of these loads
    helps transition Junior tyro shooters from the .22 rimfire to the service rifle
    without being intimidated by the noise and recoil.

    Zeroing is no problem in the M1 or M14, because "The Load" shoots into the
    ten-ring of the reduced SR target at 200 yards from your M1 or M14 rifle at
    using your normal 600 yard sight dope! The somewhat greater wind deflection
    blows you into the "8" ring at 200 yards with the same conditions you would
    expect to do so at 600 yards with M118 Match ammunition. This provides your
    Junior shooters some useful wind-doping practice.

    The economy of a lighter charge is obvious. A full power .30-'06 load using 50
    grs. of an IMR powder like 4064 costs 10 cents a pop, just for powder, at 140
    rounds per pound (if you are lucky enough to find new powder for $14/lb.).
    Substituting 13 grs. of Red Dot gets 538 rounds per pound at a cost of 2.6
    cents which is a savings of over $7 per hundred rounds in powder alone! Greater
    savings are possible if you get the best price and buy powder by the caddy.

    Velocity and point of impact of "The Load" is not noticeably affected by
    varying powder position in the case. I shoot them either slow fire, or clip-fed
    and flipped through rapid-fire in the boltgun with equal accuracy. Red Dot is
    very clean burning and is economical both on the basis of its lower charge
    weight, and its lower basic cost per pound compared to other "rifle" powders.

    Best of all, using a shotshell powder I already have reduces the kinds of
    powder I keep and eliminates the need for a special "reduced load" powder. This
    approach is ideal for rifle shooters who are also shotgunners, since almost
    everybody who reloads for 12-ga. probably has a keg of Red Dot already!

    I now realize it is foolish to use heavier charges of more expensive powder for
    routine practice, varmint or small game loads in my center-fire rifles. I
    seldom shoot at over 200 yards, and don't enjoy wearing out expensive target
    barrels unnecessarily. Since I already have good sight dope and need to work
    more on technique and save my remaining barrel accuracy life for matches.

    I am glad I found the way to get alot more shooting for the dollar. Economical
    powder choice IS possible, and my reloading has become less complicated and
    more enjoyable simple since I realized I could do most of my rifle shooting
    with 13 grains of Red Dot! "

  19. #19
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    For simplicity I have settled on 16.5 gr of 2400 and 13 gr of Red Dot in my son's Mosin.

    This is under either the Lee C312-185 or the Lee CTL312-160, whatever I have the most of.

    He happened to get one that slugs at .309-.310" so I gas check and size to .312". These loads are very accurate.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Mary is of course quite correct. 13 gr of Red Dot works very very well in the Mosin.

    I have gone as low as 10 with no issues. The russian beast can be tamed.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check