Accuracy AR-15

[imashooter2]

Here is another opinion... Two stage triggers have a place. They are a huge improvement over the standard mil spec units and really shine in competitions where the rules specify minimum overall pull weight. I have them in a couple of SD type rifles.

But for a pure target rifle, why would you intentionally put creep into your trigger? This is a spot for a single stage.

[308Jeff]

I have gotten by best results with TAC and BL-C(2). Also experimented with VARGET and Win 748. I'll look up my loads tonight.

[osteodoc08]

I've got a Stag Super Varminter and it's scary accurate. Well under 1 MOA if I do my part.

May I suggest a 20+ inch 1/8 or 1/7 twist and launch 68gr + for the longer range stuff.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Thanks to all

[308Jeff]

Here is another opinion... Two stage triggers have a place. They are a huge improvement over the standard mil spec units and really shine in competitions where the rules specify minimum overall pull weight. I have them in a couple of SD type rifles.

But for a pure target rifle, why would you intentionally put creep into your trigger? This is a spot for a single stage.

You have far more shooting experience than me, so I'm sure you're absolutely correct. I picked up several RRA 2 Stage triggers for $65.00 each so that's what I ended up putting in my AR's that didn't already have a 2 Stage.

I have a single stage Timney in my Rem 700, but I've only had a chance to put 83 rounds through that rifle since the rebarrel and action work. I haven't had a chance to fire it since installing the Timney, but it sure did feel nice in my dry fire trials.

[Scharfschuetze]

An advantage to double stage triggers is that the initial take up of a few pound reduces the final break by the amount of the initial take up. Thus you get a final break for a 4.5 lb trigger with a felt weight of often less than three pounds, yet the trigger has a total pull weight of 4.5 pounds. That final stage, with a good quality trigger, is like breaking glass and will compare favorable with any single stage trigger. It's all about learning how to properly use a double stage trigger. When firing multiple rounds, just release the trigger enough to allow the disconnecter to click. That way you won't have to pull through the first stage and will basically enjoy a single stage trigger. It becomes muscle memory quickly. We called it trigger control with the M14 rifle in the Army.

As an aside, virtually all military bolt rifles and US Rifles through the M14 used a double stage trigger. If you learned to shoot with one of the old War Horses, then a double stage trigger in the AR rifles will make you feel right at home.

In addition to that, the hammer on most double stage triggers is lighter than the standard single stage hammers so you get a slightly faster lock time. While not too important if shooting from a bench or a bipod, it can often make the difference between a weak 10 and a wide 9 while shooting off hand at the 200 yard stage of the National Match course. It will also help when shooting at moving targets too. One of my heavy match AR15 rifles still has a very good single stage trigger, but its lock time is noticeably slower than the double stage triggers on my other ARs.

One issue with tuning factory single stage triggers is that the surface hardening of the sear surfaces is very shallow. It doesn't take too much stoning to cut through that surface hardness. When that happens, the trigger job does not last very long. After stoning these, it's a good idea to infuse the surfaces with a high carbon treatment with heat to re-harden them.

The trigger break is the final interface (popular term nowadays) between the shooter and his rifle. It is often much more important than a 1/2 MOA rifle and ammo capability in field conditions far away from a bench.

What ever trigger you choose, hold hard and good shooting.

[308Jeff]

LUCKYDAWG, here's the data and pics I dug up.

Lake City Brass, Remington 7-1/2 Primers, 68gr Hornady BTHP, 2.255" OAL.

I got my best results with 23.5gr of TAC, and 24.5gr of BL-C(2).

Rifle was a home built lower, DPMS 16" Bull Barrel Uppler.

5 shot groups, 100 yards.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Thanks Jeff those are the kind of groups that I'm trying to get

[308Jeff]

You're welcome, sir.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Well i got a chance to try some of my new loads Things are looking better with the new scope RedFeld 2x7 but the 68gr SMK did not shoot
any better then the 55gr FMJ a Quarter can cover my best 5 shot groups of ether load now with the 55gr bullets keeping tighter groups
on average at least now i know that the barrel can shoot and that a new trigger will help me out Attachment 196316 Attachment 196317 the target not marked is 55gr hornady FMJ BT
with 26.5 gr of CFE 223

[308Jeff]

Looking good!

[imashooter2]

Well i got a chance to try some of my new loads Things are looking better with the new scope RedFeld 2x7 but the 68gr SMK did not shoot
any better then the 55gr FMJ a Quarter can cover my best 5 shot groups of ether load now with the 55gr bullets keeping tighter groups
on average at least now i know that the barrel can shoot and that a new trigger will help me out the target not marked is 55gr hornady FMJ BT
with 26.5 gr of CFE 223

FWIW, my 1:9 rifle will not group well with anything over 60 grains. Try some 60 grain V-MAX or one of the various 52 grain BTHP Match offerings.

[Lloyd Smale]

as accurate as 99 percent of the bolt guns ive owned. Ive got 4 556s and the worse shooting one will shoot 1.5 moa with ball and moa with a good handload. The best one, a pieced together gun with a colt lower, free floated forarm and a cheap model 1 stainless 16 inch 1 in 7 barrel. (still not a heavy barreled gun) will shoot 1/2 moa with its best load and I don't think its every shot a 5 shot group over an inch at a 100 and that's with a 4x acog on it not some high powered scope. Even my beo is moa with loads it likes. My 9mm isn't quite as good but just yesterday shot a 50 yard 25 shot group that measured a tad over an inch (would have been under an inch with the exception of one shot that was my fault) and that's with a vortex redot, not a scope. Ive only owned to that did shoot exceptionaly well. An old first generation Olympic that was a total *** if both function and accuracy and a bushmaster in 762x39 that was a 2moa gun all day long. Add to this that none of my ars are high dollar guns. I think the most ive paid is a grand for my stag. To be honest ive had a lot more crappy bolt actions that were challenging to get to shoot then I have ARs.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

FWIW, my 1:9 rifle will not group well with anything over 60 grains. Try some 60 grain V-MAX or one of the various 52 grain BTHP Match offerings.

I did pick up some Hornady Match 68gr BTHP to try out but I'm starting to think that my Rifle 1:9 twist just likes lighter bullets so i will pick up some other
bullets to try out I know that it's not a bench rifle and that it has a stock trigger in it but it's work in progress Attachment 196354

[Lloyd Smale]

You might want to give 60 grain vmaxs. That bullet is hands down the most accurate bullet across the board in my ars. 55 grain vmax and ballistic tip also do real well in my 1 in 9 twist guns.

[imashooter2]

The 68 grain Hornady BTHP Match have a slower ogive and are considerably longer than the 69 grain SMK. If the 69s didn't work, I wouldn't hold out great hope for the longer 68s. But since they are already bought...

As a humorous aside, my regular shooting partner has a 1:9 Savage bolt that won't shoot anything under 60 grains. Neither one of us wants to believe it and we are always giving each other partial boxes of the latest failed experiment.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I'm hoping that the CFE 223 powder will be the ticket with the hrrnady 68 bullets but I'm lucky enough to have a Cabela's nearby so I will run up and pick some 60 grain bullets up to test

[LUCKYDAWG13]

What I'm really thinking the turning point will be after I install a new trigger once I figure out which one to pick up

[308Jeff]

What I'm really thinking the turning point will be after I install a new trigger once I figure out which one to pick up

You're right. A trigger upgrade is going to make a difference.

There's lots of options out therel. All the way from the PSA Enhanced trigger to the 2 stage RR, and then on up to something really nice.

[imashooter2]

Geissele is having a Memorial Day weekend sale...

But I still think this is a spot for a single stage.