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Thread: 1911 Winchester worth fixing?

  1. #1
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    1911 Winchester worth fixing?

    I was given a 1911 12gauge Win. Shotgun. It shoots and ejects but the carrier spring is missing or broken. It has the normally cracked forend. Given their low value should I repair it? I have two perfect A5's so I'm covered for recoil operated shotguns.
    What do yall think?
    Best,Thomas.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Read Roy Dunlap's comments in Gunsmithing if you can find a copy.If I remember correctly Winchester wouldn't repair them.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    A gift shotgun is always worth what you have in it. As long as it shoots you are ahead of the game.

    There may be some interchangeability of parts with a more common gun. Worth looking into at any rate.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Here's a short run down of the gun and its safety concerns
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1911

    Someone may have disabled the carrier deliberately to discourage use as a repeater.

    I remember a similar shotgun was used to construct prop police weapons in the Sci Fi Movie "Outland".
    I remember they charged the weapon by shoving the cut down barrel back with the palm of the hand, not such a great idea.

  5. #5
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    Thanks guys. It may remain a single shot. I'll look into it someday- meanwhile it looks ok on the shop wall.
    Best, Thomas.

  6. #6
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    Preacher Jim's Avatar
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    Was this not the shotgun nick named the widow maker?

  7. #7
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    That's the one! The least collectable Winchester ever. I have heard of them working ok for some people. It's well balanced and shoulders nicely.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    At one time, Winchester had a recall on the model 11.

  9. #9
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    I have read up on them and it was a karma thing for Winchester after they refused JMB's terms on his auto shotgun. Lots of horror stories mainly from dumb gun handling but also tales of breakages and jams.
    And then I read about some still giving good service. I will play with it cautiously.
    Best, Thomas.

  10. #10
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    I think those were called the "Widowmaker" as some owner/users would lean over the muzzle as they racked the barrel, and if the trigger released due to wear or whatever, they blew their heads off.

    But one thing about questions like this: Rare guns are always "collectible" sooner or later. If you're into it light, I'd get it fixed, and just look around for the cheapest/best way to get that done. Then, just sit on it. Your progeny may get a significant offer for it one day. Just a thought, anyway. It's sometimes the guns that "nobody likes" that wind up diminishing in numbers so that they become rare and (one day) fairly valuable.

  11. #11
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    Good advice Blackwater, thanks. It's a cool old gun to look at.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    I have read up on them and it was a karma thing for Winchester after they refused JMB's terms on his auto shotgun. Lots of horror stories mainly from dumb gun handling but also tales of breakages and jams.
    And then I read about some still giving good service. I will play with it cautiously.
    Best, Thomas.
    I would not spend any money on it . The several older folks that I have known over the years that bought that gun new said ( to a man ) that they worked fine as long as you did not use them but required factory service every year if you did . Too many small delicate springs is what I have been told .

    Eddie
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    If you can figure out what parts it needs put them on your "keep an eye out for" list. As parts dry up the price for the parts goes up.

  14. #14
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    It's actually the butt stock that usually cracks. Right around the wrist if I remember right.
    Possibly the worst firearm Winchester ever went into production on. Put her up on the wall and dust her off once or twice a year.
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms *shall not be infringed*.

    "The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
    - Thomas Jefferson

    "While the people have property, arms in their hands, and only a spark of noble spirit, the most corrupt Congress must be mad to form any project of tyranny."
    - Rev. Nicholas Collin, Fayetteville Gazette (N.C.), October 12, 1789

  15. #15
    Boolit Mold
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    I restored mine a few years back. Managed to get a fajen forend and stock (both cracked with a hillbilly repair on the buttstock) before they went out of business. Actually it's a beauty and shoots really well just I use 3 or 3 1/4 dram eq loads with 1 1/8 oz shot. Some parts are avaliable for the gun

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    That is a great one to send to Gun parts company. At my old shop ones like that went to them as someone my want to fix one someday and they really had no other value IMHO

  17. #17
    Boolit Mold
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    Keep in mind that there is a part of that gun which is essential to the proper timing of the action that is constructed almost entirely of wood. If that piece is damaged, warped, or, as in many cases that I've seen, lost and replaced by an improvised part, the gun will not function correctly as a repeater. I'm referring to part #11 on the diagram - the bolt spring follower stop rod. That design flaw combined with the numerous other common breakage issues and safety concerns associated with the model 1911SL makes it one gun best relegated it the role of a wall-hanger. Even the guns designer thought it was fruitless exercise to get around existing patents and JMBs design for the A5.

  18. #18
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    Thanks to all replies. I have fired it a few times as a single shot. The auto ejection and manipulation of the bolt release button allow me to bypass the widowmaker dance. It does hang on the wall of the shop with a "no work" sticker on it though. T.G. Bennett's "doh"! Moment was telling JMB to take the A5 elsewhere!
    Best, Thomas.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  19. #19
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    The issue of safety with the 11 centered around old paper cartridges and violation of common safety practices, i.e. DON'T GET IN FRONT OF THE MUZZLE. Paper cartridges could/would swell and then not chamber properly. Since the barrel was the cocking mechanism it had to be pulled to the rear to clear the jam. More than a few nuckleheads put the butt on the ground and pushed down on the barrel with their head/body over the muzzle. There were accidents. The stock splitting issue was a problem with the recoil reduction rings that wore out and allowed recoil to climb.

    As far as you gun, contact me if you don't want it any more and we might be able to arrange some mutually beneficial deal.
    Dave

    In 100 years who of us will care?
    An armed society is a polite society.
    Just because they say you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you!

  20. #20
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    Thanks, Dave. I will ponder on it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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