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Thread: the magnum issue here and hunting ethics

  1. #81
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    seems like if you don't use a 38 special you are a magnum nut
    hand me the nuts and a beer
    Compared to the 38 short the special IS a magnum .
    The Colts is to the Schofield as the long/special is to the short/NP/38-200 no wait maybe the 38/200 is a mag too ........
    Which makes the 357 and 454 super mags and the Max and 460 rifle cartridges ..........
    So the 7mm 08 is a short mag to the 7x57 and 280 Rem is a standard mag and the 275 H&H and 7mm Remington mag are super mags . So the 7STW must be .......what field artillery ?
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992

    About that rally point, the soap and mail boxes fall on blind eyes and deaf ears,the ballot box is manipulated,it would seem we are fast running out options....

  2. #82
    Boolit Master
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    be damned if you use one
    heaven knows there is no place for these foolish things
    what is the world coming to
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6pt-sika View Post
    I have a journal/ledger I keep of all the deer I've killed in my lifetime . I am a couple shy of 300 at the moment . Anyway in my journal I jeep date time buck/doe cartridge/weapon distance of the shot and distance animal moved after the shot . The big kicker in this whole thing is AVERAGE distance of the shot . My LIFETIME average for almost 300 deer is 42-43 yards .

    i should have kept a ledger.....

  4. #84
    Boolit Master
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    I like the idea of compiling data like that. I forget which DNR did a study about that, but they followed a hunting club and kept track of caliber etc. They even chased down "lost" deer with dogs. There wasn't enough data on any individual calibers but they did contrast soft point vs regular projectiles and and the soft points were better.

    What I'd really like is for somebody to conduct some good testing on the hogs down south with the "borderline" cartridges and keep track of range and effect. Since they are as much of a pest as they are I wouldn't have ethical qualms about it. And it might be the only way to get enough numbers to say things with authority.
    "There are no solutions there are only tradeoffs" ~ Thomas Sowell

  5. #85
    Boolit Master
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    I hear you tdoyka I have hunted in the Florida and Georgia swamps all my life and most of my shots are 50/60 yards can't see much further than that.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by starnbar View Post
    I hear you tdoyka I have hunted in the Florida and Georgia swamps all my life and most of my shots are 50/60 yards can't see much further than that.

    i have done swPA and WV. i think( do you smell smoke?are you sure? i smell it, i swear. ) that its 30-35 yards. a 50 yarder is a long shot. i have a chair in the woods that i can see 75 yards, but i kill them at 30 yards or less. i have another stand that goes 300 yards( 297 yards to be exact), but i don't shoot them if they are 150+ yards. i used to be one those guys that killed deer 25' or less, but i can't walk the way i used to. dang stroke!!!

    but i'm happy to see a deer, especially when i go banging and dragging myself a whole 30' to my seat. i won't tell you about my utv!!!

  7. #87
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoyka View Post
    i have done swPA and WV. i think( do you smell smoke?are you sure? i smell it, i swear. ) that its 30-35 yards. a 50 yarder is a long shot. i have a chair in the woods that i can see 75 yards, but i kill them at 30 yards or less. i have another stand that goes 300 yards( 297 yards to be exact), but i don't shoot them if they are 150+ yards. i used to be one those guys that killed deer 25' or less, but i can't walk the way i used to. dang stroke!!!

    but i'm happy to see a deer, especially when i go banging and dragging myself a whole 30' to my seat. i won't tell you about my utv!!!
    Yep and sometimes 35-50 yards in the woods is a hard shot and a heart-pounding suspenseful couple of minutes, "Come on buck, take one more step, just a couple more feet, give me good shot!"
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hickok View Post
    Yep and sometimes 35-50 yards in the woods is a hard shot and a heart-pounding suspenseful couple of minutes, "Come on buck, take one more step, just a couple more feet, give me good shot!"
    you ought to try it at 12' !!!!

    i shot a nice 8pt at 12'. the only part of the buck was his shoulder, i guess i only had 2" of his shoulder(it was god awful brushy). i took the shot, he jumped up and ran. i calmed my beating heart, reloaded my ruger #1(270win/130gr bt over a max charge of imr4320) and i went to the spot that i had shot him. i didn't see a drop of blood, hair..nothing. my heart immediately sank. how could i miss that buck? it was 12' from me. i seen him jump... well i got on a deer trail that he ran and still i couldn't find blood or hair. my mind was racing, no blood or hair...this went on for 25 yards, then i found him. he was dead, laying down in a depression, thank God. the bullet went in(shoulder) but it didn't come out. i dressed him and i found nothing but lung soup with chunks of heart. the bullet must have shattered because it never even went to the offside of the buck. i'd find bits and pieces of the bullet while i was dressing out the "lungs and heart".

  9. #89
    Boolit Master
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    6pt I'm right there with you, my average may be even shorter though, as many with a recurve bow and arrow moving at about 175 fps. 22 mag to .308, 38 spcl. 41 mag, .270, 20 and 12 ga shotgun mostly buckshot, 30/30, I believe that's all I have killed big game with. Couple hundred deer and about that in hogs and very few hogs with a gun. I don't care what you shoot, just don't shoot me.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  10. #90
    Boolit Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Im not a magnum nut, Im a gun and cartridge nut. I like my 30-30, and my 44 magnum, and my 22 long rifle. I owned a weatherby mark V deluxe in 270 weatherby magnum. I killed a groundhog with it but never any big game. That was a real nice rifle. I was dumb for getting rid of it. Id love to have one in 30-06, or 300 Weatherby magnum.

  11. #91
    Boolit Master
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    I've attempted 2 deer at '0' yards. One got up and ran away but the other was DRT! I used enough truck on the second one but not the first...... Ok....grin a little....

  12. #92
    Boolit Master NoAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6pt-sika View Post
    I have a journal/ledger I keep of all the deer I've killed in my lifetime . I am a couple shy of 300 at the moment . Anyway in my journal I jeep date time buck/doe cartridge/weapon distance of the shot and distance animal moved after the shot . The big kicker in this whole thing is AVERAGE distance of the shot . My LIFETIME average for almost 300 deer is 42-43 yards .

    Wow, only 300. I seem to recall a member or two boasting numbers in the thousands.

    Seriously though, that's really cool you've kept up with it. Nice to look back and have that information to dwell on. I'm just one state west of you and the 40-some odd yards makes sense. Most deer in the southeast are killed inside a hundred.
    When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"

  13. #93
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetualStudent View Post
    I like the idea of compiling data like that. I forget which DNR did a study about that, but they followed a hunting club and kept track of caliber etc. They even chased down "lost" deer with dogs. There wasn't enough data on any individual calibers but they did contrast soft point vs regular projectiles and and the soft points were better.

    What I'd really like is for somebody to conduct some good testing on the hogs down south with the "borderline" cartridges and keep track of range and effect. Since they are as much of a pest as they are I wouldn't have ethical qualms about it. And it might be the only way to get enough numbers to say things with authority.
    Well here's a start .
    45 Colts 250 SWC 950 fps
    165# 17 yd . Entered 3" below spine exit 3" above sternum 2" behind clavicle 200 yd self drown .
    145# 47 yd . Entered / exit center of ribs missed clavicle . Moved 3 of 4 feet layed down.
    135# less than 3 yd entered right center of chest exit cut half moon in left ham inside . Sit flop .
    140# 10 yd , right of chest center , last left side long rib , 3 steps backwards squat roll .
    140# 22 paces entered behind right shoulder broke left front leg . 3 bounds and a pile up .
    120# 25 yd high shoulder/neck spine hit from elevated blind .
    189# 30 yd quartering away entry at first short rib exit chest , nose dive drt .
    175# 25 yd classic boiler house left to right circle stagger and fall .

    264 WM 140 Win Power Point 2800 fps by the book no Chrony data .
    145# 45 yd , left back half of ribs exit right corner of mouth , shock hop drt. Looked like a stroke patient .
    145# 75 yd , center of ribs in/out 4.5" exit hole in hide .

    308 win #3033 Hornady 150 gr SPBT 2800 FPS .
    145# 30yd entered rear of left shoulder exit front of right . Dropped heaving and wheezing finished with 454424 from 45 ACP .
    80# 20 yd neck shot basically decapitated .

    30-30 150 Win silver tip circa 1964 .
    150# 30 yd double clavicle below spine , finished with same 35 yd from 1 st shot .

    222 50 gr SP FC ..........
    51# 45 yd Center of ribs . Bone and bullet shotguning throughout chest cavity 75 yd before collapse finished by another hunter with 12 ga slug . At butcher 2 30 cal fmj were found in the shoulder source unk .

    300 WSM 165 Cor-lokt
    135# 55 yd 1st shot head on forward flip , 2nd shot below rt eye . Lost , killed by a 2nd hunter 250-350 yd from first shot
    110# 25 yd elevated blind low neck spine , no exit , compass legs .

    243 Win 100gr Cor-lokt .
    3 pigs 70-85# high neck to behind ear 30-50yd drt.

    45-70 405 JSP Privi Partizan
    185 # 25 yd center of ribs mangled offside shoulder exit . Double 180 drt.
    205# 25 yd boiler house drt
    190# 35 yd double shoulder exit . Drt .

    35 Remington 35-250 1900 fps

    165# 30 yd low snout through the brain pan exit spinal column 3-4th vertibra recovered from backstrap near the rear of the shoulder . Lockup tipped over .

    257 Roberts 2800 fps 100 gr Game King

    90# 25 yd mid-neck head on dropped like a stone . No exit , bone and bullet frags well into the low shoulders .

    Those are all I know by heart .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992

    About that rally point, the soap and mail boxes fall on blind eyes and deaf ears,the ballot box is manipulated,it would seem we are fast running out options....

  14. #94
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by versa-06 View Post
    Anybody experienced a true Bang Flop using cast to the vitals? Jim
    Yup, with an 300gn Wide Flat Nose .44cal Accurate Mold. Hit the deer in the arm pit when it bent down to feed. It folded on the spot - just straight down. That was my first with that mold and I was shocked. I then spent 15mins waiting for the other one to run off. I finally got tired of it browsing so I stood up. I only brought one round that day.

  15. #95
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    You fellows amaze me you know that if you don't have a remlin in .460 caliber and 750 grain bullet moving at 3 times the speed of sound you can't stop anything. We have all these expert gun writers telling us this and we all know they are much smarter than the fellow who actually hunts.
    Now if we want to get real, it is the knock down power that really matters, not how fast the bullet is moving nor how big it is. A lead bullet will stop just about anything that is on the North American Land mass. Look at what the 30-30 was used for back in the day. I learned a long time ago it is much more important the energy the bullet is carrying with then how fast it is going. I am in the process of teaching a friend that is a J word shooter that lead doesn't need to move at the speed of light to be an effective round.
    Beware of a government that fears its citizens having the means to protect themselves.
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  16. #96
    Boolit Master 6pt-sika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    6pt I'm right there with you, my average may be even shorter though, as many with a recurve bow and arrow moving at about 175 fps. 22 mag to .308, 38 spcl. 41 mag, .270, 20 and 12 ga shotgun mostly buckshot, 30/30, I believe that's all I have killed big game with. Couple hundred deer and about that in hogs and very few hogs with a gun. I don't care what you shoot, just don't shoot me.
    When we do the damage control stuff a lot of times I'll carry a pair of rifles . Usually a 444 with cast and a Ruger #1 or bolt with jacketed . Or a rifle and a 10 gauge double loaded with buckshot .

    But granted one of the biggest things for me is trying guns and or loads I've not tried before THAT I WANT TO TRY . Think I've killed two deer out of a stand several times where I used one rifle for one and a shotgun or different rifle for the second . Last year as a matter of fact I killed two in a sit used the same rifle but I used a different 300 grain bullet for each .

    This year I have a few more cast bullets I wanna try out of my 444's and start using a couple 44 MAG pistols with cast . As well as a few more with my 10 gauge handloads in a couple other guns I've not killed with yet . But I also wanna start using my AR 6.5 Grendel as well as get back to my 26 Nosler some .

    I suppose life would be a lot simpler if I just chose a rifle or two and a shotgun per season but I'm not sure it would be as much fun for me . But anyway to each his own .
    Go Manny Pacquiao !!!

    Double's , 6.5mm's , 444 Marlin , Sika Deer and my family in the Philippines

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6pt-sika View Post
    When we do the damage control stuff a lot of times I'll carry a pair of rifles . Usually a 444 with cast and a Ruger #1 or bolt with jacketed . Or a rifle and a 10 gauge double loaded with buckshot .

    But granted one of the biggest things for me is trying guns and or loads I've not tried before THAT I WANT TO TRY . Think I've killed two deer out of a stand several times where I used one rifle for one and a shotgun or different rifle for the second . Last year as a matter of fact I killed two in a sit used the same rifle but I used a different 300 grain bullet for each .

    This year I have a few more cast bullets I wanna try out of my 444's and start using a couple 44 MAG pistols with cast . As well as a few more with my 10 gauge handloads in a couple other guns I've not killed with yet . But I also wanna start using my AR 6.5 Grendel as well as get back to my 26 Nosler some .

    I suppose life would be a lot simpler if I just chose a rifle or two and a shotgun per season but I'm not sure it would be as much fun for me . But anyway to each his own .
    This is me also, unfortunately. I have several in the que I probably won't get to before I die.

    The worst thing you can be if you want to be a serious hunter is to be a serious gun nut. If I picked one rifle and worked with it exclusively, I'd probably be better off, but I kill a few deer most years and use something different every time it seems, so I'm happy.

  18. #98
    Boolit Master
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    If all Y'all would start using lead and BP we wouldn't have to beat this horse to death. Over and over and over.....
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  19. #99
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dan View Post
    If all Y'all would start using lead and BP we wouldn't have to beat this horse to death. Over and over and over.....
    Cause that's not it's own bucket of snakes .
    " What tarnation do ya need a Walker fer that 58' .36 Navy will do all the mop up ya ever need to do !"
    Or
    " I find anything over 80gr of FFg and a 45 cal prb to be just excessive and wasteful . That Knight in line 54 with 150gr of White hot pellets and those Aero flex 400 gr copper majigs is fine it you need to kill a Braciasaursus in El Paso from DFW but completely unnecessary for anything in the western hemisphere. "

    Yeah let's don't drag the holy black into this . I can almost hear the debate about the sissy shooting 45-60-350s vs the man's 45-120-600 .
    (Foot note , according to Lyman's 48th , the 45-110-405 JSP loaded to Trapdoor deference matches the 458 WM 405 JSP)
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992

    About that rally point, the soap and mail boxes fall on blind eyes and deaf ears,the ballot box is manipulated,it would seem we are fast running out options....

  20. #100
    Boolit Master
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    Was actually thinking about a .56 caliber muzzle loader that flings 1,300 grains of lead with 250 gr of Lord Black when I wrote that. Or was it a .25-20 SS? I get so confused these days....
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check