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Thread: the magnum issue here and hunting ethics

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoyka View Post
    if shooting a deer/elk/whatever at 600-700 yards, then you are a shooter, not a hunter. that is just my 2cents.

    I can't remember who said that a "shooter" tries to see how far away he can get and still hit the target. A "hunter" tries to get as close as he can to the target before he takes the shot. Truth

  2. #42
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by petroid View Post
    I can't remember who said that a "shooter" tries to see how far away he can get and still hit the target. A "hunter" tries to get as close as he can to the target before he takes the shot. Truth
    Totally agree... They call it HUNTING for a reason, we don't have shooting seasons..

  3. #43
    Boolit Master


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    It is easier to be a shooter...If you are capable!!

    Set up a blind near fields and/or power lines. Bring a range finder and range various points while you wait. Have a ballistic table with you. Make sure the gun is sighted in with an accurate load.

    I know people who bait. They believe they hunt deer.
    Don Verna

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  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    There be shooters and hunters. They are not the same creatures.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  5. #45
    Boolit Man McFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoyka View Post
    if shooting a deer/elk/whatever at 600-700 yards, then you are a shooter, not a hunter.
    What does the distinction matter if it puts meat on the table? What does it have to do with the topic of this thread of Magnum-itis and Ethics?

    I bet there are people who scoff at your use of a modern rifle to collect your tablefare claiming that you too are no 'Hunter.' Philistine! Where is your pointy stick and rock?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by McFred View Post
    What does the distinction matter if it puts meat on the table? What does it have to do with the topic of this thread of Magnum-itis and Ethics?

    I bet there are people who scoff at your use of a modern rifle to collect your tablefare claiming that you too are no 'Hunter.' Philistine! Where is your pointy stick and rock?

    i've taken deer with a flintlock 50cal muzzleloader with a patched round ball and 80gr of ffg. i was going to try a recurved bow with cedar shafts, feathers and obsidian broadheads. but i had a stroke and it left me without the use of my right arm/leg. but i am a hunter, not a shooter.

    another 2cents...

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    Just what is a magnum any way? Ethics? Isn't that something one imposes on one's self? Different situations call for different methods.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    Which one is the magnum?

    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    In a fit of frustration I dug up assorted states regulations regarding legal weapons . Alabama allows you to hunt with a thrown spear . As far muzzleloaders go I've seen nothing that denies any lock type but no pistols not even a Walker .
    RF 22 mag is legal for deer in Maine .
    Utah requires 500 ftlb at the muzzle for a big game hand gun and for moose,elk,sheep and mountain goat need 500 ftlb at 100 in a hand gun .
    Nevada mandates a 2" OAL and 1000ftlb at 100 for rifles but for hand guns a minimum cartridge requirement of 24 cal and 1.280 in case length .

    Some build on what they have had longest as law .
    When I sound like a magnum junky all I'm really doing is working to meet or exceed that standard .

    For consideration with a 405 gr JSP the 45-110 in a 34" Trapdoor is in a dead heat with the 458 WM and Mauser/Ruger level loads and the 45-70 is pretty close too .
    How many shoot a 45 Colts ? Dead heat with the nominal 357 below 900 fps . Wouldn't an 06' or even 30-40 be a magnum compared to a 30 Carbine or even a 30-30 ? So what really constitutes a magnum ?
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992

    About that rally point, the soap and mail boxes fall on blind eyes and deaf ears,the ballot box is manipulated,it would seem we are fast running out options....

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    The short one, third from the right
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master
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    30-30 technically is a magnum if you think about it.

    The clinical definition of magnum is any cartridge that throws a heavier projectile at standard velocities, ie a .38 special loaded with a 200 grain bullet at standard velocity is a magnum.
    Or use of lighter bullets at higher velocities. Ie, 110 gr JHP in a .357 going 1600fps

    Everyone knows that the .44 magnum came out hotter and more powerful and capable then what Elmer and friends were actually trying to get them to do. It was GREAT. However, the mighty cartridge is considered inferior to anything else until it loads a 3-400 grain bullet at the same velocity.
    Absolutely no need, if the original 240 grain load isn't enough, get a .308 Winchester.

    Same with the .45 colt. It was meant for shooting horses out from under hostiles at 70 yards. Yet it still hasn't lessened by age, original 250 grain bullet load was 1,000 typical in a full length SAA barrel.

    Now that load is trash, rubbish, until it goes 1300 fps, or has a 3-380 grain bullet traveling at 1200-1300 fps.

  12. #52

  13. #53
    Boolit Master

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    I think the .45ACP is better than a 9mm because........ooops, got fired up for the wrong argument! I'll just sit down and listen.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteshaver View Post
    30-30 technically is a magnum if you think about it.

    The clinical definition of magnum is any cartridge that throws a heavier projectile at standard velocities, ie a .38 special loaded with a 200 grain bullet at standard velocity is a magnum.
    Or use of lighter bullets at higher velocities. Ie, 110 gr JHP in a .357 going 1600fps

    Everyone knows that the .44 magnum came out hotter and more powerful and capable then what Elmer and friends were actually trying to get them to do. It was GREAT. However, the mighty cartridge is considered inferior to anything else until it loads a 3-400 grain bullet at the same velocity.
    Absolutely no need, if the original 240 grain load isn't enough, get a .308 Winchester.

    Same with the .45 colt. It was meant for shooting horses out from under hostiles at 70 yards. Yet it still hasn't lessened by age, original 250 grain bullet load was 1,000 typical in a full length SAA barrel.

    Now that load is trash, rubbish, until it goes 1300 fps, or has a 3-380 grain bullet traveling at 1200-1300 fps.

    The term "magnum" is nothing more than a marketing ploy. It means nothing, zip, nada, zero in the world of interior or exterior ballistics. I will admit that being struck up side the noodle with a magnum bottle of champagne is more stressful than a regular size bottle. I have personal expertise, don't argue with me.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  15. #55
    Boolit Man McFred's Avatar
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    Regarding the actual topic, if it's legal then pursue your game however you want and tell others where to stick their opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by tdoyka View Post
    i've taken deer with [things]. i was going to try [other things]. but i [didn't.]

    but i am a hunter, not a shooter
    That's all nice but you didn't answer my question. What's your arbitrary distinction between "hunters" and "shooters" got to do with the topic at hand?

    hunter |ˈhən(t)ər|
    noun
    1. a person or animal that hunts.

    shooter |ˈSHo͞odər|
    noun
    1. a person who uses a gun either regularly or on a particular occasion.

    Sounds to me like you're both, just like everyone else who chases quarry with projectiles. You sir, are no more unique or special than anyone else.
    2

  16. #56
    Boolit Master
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    Whachu hunt with that GAU8?
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master woodbutcher's Avatar
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    Whatever strikes his fancy?
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
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  18. #58
    Boolit Master
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    I am a meat hunter, this year I will hunt with a 300WSM 168gr Ballistic Tip bullet and a 44mag pistol with 240gr cast SWC. I try to take my game with one shot and pray I don't have to look to far for them.
    I have taken deer from reach out and stick a knife in them distance with a BP rifle out to 500 yards with the 300WSM. The close ones I have had to track upon occasion the distant ones most have been bang flop.
    I am not interested in the size of the rack on a buck only how much meat I can put in the freezer for the wife and I to eat.
    I was bit by magnumitise a couple of years when my 300 WM tried to shove the scope through my nose. I looked like a raccoon for a while.
    Don't care what people think of what I use only if it works and the game doesn't have to suffer.
    NRA Life Member

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by McFred View Post
    Regarding the actual topic, if it's legal then pursue your game however you want and tell others where to stick their opinions.



    That's all nice but you didn't answer my question. What's your arbitrary distinction between "hunters" and "shooters" got to do with the topic at hand?

    hunter |ˈhən(t)ər|
    noun
    1. a person or animal that hunts.

    shooter |ˈSHo͞odər|
    noun
    1. a person who uses a gun either regularly or on a particular occasion.

    Sounds to me like you're both, just like everyone else who chases quarry with projectiles. You sir, are no more unique or special than anyone else.
    2

    i have answered.

    you are right in the fact that i am not unique or special

  20. #60
    I am by no means an expert, but I've killed deer with arrows from a recurve at less than 200fps and with "magnum rifles" 1 thing I know is true shot placement is what matters, also big fat cast boolits are a blast to make,shoot, and Harvest game.

    Sent from my SM-G925R4 using Tapatalk

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check