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Thread: the magnum issue here and hunting ethics

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    To be honest I have shot as many deer and hogs with my 50 cal tc muzzle loader loaded with bp as I have taken with all my other rifles combined. Not enough power for you? I can testify that all I have shot didn't need a backup shot including a 300 pound boar I got in upper hillborough fl I know for a fact I never want to get shot with that rifle or one like it.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master


    richhodg66's Avatar
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    I bet if truth were told, the vast majority of deer are shot at under 100 yards, I know all mine are. Many, maybe most, have been inside of 60 yards, a lot of them considerably closer than that. It works that way because I know what I'm doing getting close to deer and am a reasonably decent shot, but surely not the expert some guys are.

    At the distances most deer are shot, just about anything put in the lungs will do the job. I've shot a lot with muzzle loaders, some relatively mild cast loads in .30 caliber rifles and a few with arrows. Where I grew up in the deep south, I knew a lot of people who did it with .22 LR fairly consistently, probably illegally.

    When I hear about cartridge/bullet failures on deer, I bet it is 99% bad hits either because guys take stupid shots (running deer, too far for their shooting capabilities, etc.) and the result was a bad hit or miss. Anybody who thinks a .30-30 factory load won't humanely kill a deer is an idiot.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master woodbutcher's Avatar
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    If my Grandfather was still around,he sure could tell a person about how effective the old BP loads were.The only rifle that he ever hunted with was his 1873 TD with the old BP loads.Had several nice old Pics of him with elk,deer,black bear and a couple of buffalo that he harvested with it.Pretty much all one shot kills.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
    People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election.
    Otto von Bismarck

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    This is not typical of the mountain West .
    Deer in town are actually pretty unusual .
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    This is more like what we hunt in now any of these sheep would be a chip shot being only 80-90 yd but the top of the step out past them is about 250 and it's 350 to where it starts back up .
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    I have and infact prefer to hunt game trails and choke points , drives with a designated shooter and the like . In my areas even with the above a 200 yd might be as good as it gets .
    I'm glad that everyone​ hunts from stands and never has to shoot more than 50 yd .( Heavy sarcasm following) It is disappointing that we have to resort to shooting them at all , we should all be resolved enough as hunters to be able to slip up on the sleeping critter and scramble their brains with an icepick . (Heavy sarcasm just read)
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992

    About that rally point, the soap and mail boxes fall on blind eyes and deaf ears,the ballot box is manipulated,it would seem we are fast running out options....

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    My longest shot was 300 yards with my 7 mag.
    Closest was about 125 with my 06.
    All were out west in either CA or NV.
    The 125 yard shot I would have taken with my muzzle loader easily.
    Now I like to shoot 5000 grain bullets at 7 million fps just to take any variables out of it.
    All kidding aside, I would take any game with a 45-70 loping along at 12-1300 fps all day and not even worry about it.
    30-30 is also my all time favorite and I don't feel under gunned at all.

  6. #26
    Boolit Bub
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    Sometimes we are pressed to use what we have. Sometimes we are Blessed to use what we want. With in all aspects of reason.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master daloper's Avatar
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    In southern Michigan My land is below the rifle line. I can use a shotgun or a handgun. I started with the load them up "balls to the wall". As I got older I don't load them as hot. My 44 SRH I load my 240 SWC at the lower end of the Mag chart or the upper end of the 44 SPEC. My shots are all under 100 yrds. When I shoot on the weekend I use a standard paper plate for a target. If I can group them all on the plate I know that I can kill what I am shooting it. With me it became more about tight groups and shot placement and less about high power magnum loading. I find that they are just as dead at 800 fps. as they are at 1200 fps.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    The exact opposite to what the OP posted is what I see here more times than not. I read a post where someone was saying they were going to use a 25acp because it was legal in their state. You want to talk about ethics their is a good place to start.

    When I read about guys saying that no one needs anything more than 1200-1800fps to kill deer I have to look to see where they are from. More times than not I see they are from back east where shots are short and their line of thinking works for that area. However where I hunt if I were to think that way I would reduce my chances of taking game considerably.

    Like has been stated already about hunting out west it isn't uncommon to have a close shot being 100-150yds and a long shot could be quite a bit further. Some like to take it to the extreme and shoot way past what many consider to be ethical but i'll not get into that here.

    Do I think I need to carry an Ultra Mag or other hyper velocity large caliber rifle to kill a large game animal? No a standard caliber will work just fine out to the distances I feel comfortable shooting. Am I going to stop using my 7MM Rem Mag because someone living in an area who hasn't had to take a shot past 75yds tries to shame me and say it isn't necessary? Nope i'll continue to hunt with what I wish to hunt with.

    I've lived in Indiana when hunting with a shotgun or handgun were the only modern centerfires allowed. My shots rarely were over 50ish yards and a long one if I wanted was 100yds on a clear cut. Don't see much reason for my 7mm Rem Mag there but there are now people who are using them there. I advised my uncle to go out and buy a 30-30 if he wanted something other than his shotgun. He has been using his Marlin 1894 in 41 Mag since they have allowed the use of PCCs. He thought about taking one of his high powered rifles out but saw the results of his buddies deer shot with a 30-06 and a frangible bullet at 50yds. Plenty of wasted deer was the result.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master 6pt-sika's Avatar
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    Warboar21 has the right way of looking at the whole thing . Me personally I don't care what other folks use , if it floats their boat then so be it . I have and will continue to kill several deer each year with cast billets in a rifle , also a few each year with buckshot and home cast slugs in my double barrels . And with that being said I WILL continue to use SEVERAL bolt actions and AR's with jacketed billets of which a couple of the bolt guns could be considered ultra velocity . Now I don't need the ultra bug I LIKE it and since I'm the one who paid the bill that's my decision . So as far as I'm concerned to each his own full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes or some such gibberish .
    Go Manny Pacquiao !!!

    Double's , 6.5mm's , 444 Marlin , Sika Deer and my family in the Philippines

  10. #30
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    688 yard elk DRT 105 grain VLD
    Bullet construction and placement = success
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18

  11. #31
    Boolit Master


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    There's enough open space around me that I could take long shots if I wanted to, I just don't have to. I spend (and have spent) enough time figuring out movement patterns and arrange to be there when they show up. Takes some planning and prep work. Every year on public land, I see guys who think all they have to do is walk around with a rifle and a deer will accommodate them with a shot, not a good method. The smart money is on the guy who does his homework and can plan. I killed three deer last season, two with cast in a .351 WSL and one with a cross bow. No long range combos there to be sure.

    Don't believe me, start looking around at archery shops in your area, I guarantee you'll find some bowhunters who consistently kill deer wherever you are. But use whatever you want and take whatever shots you're comfortable with.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    jmort has it. Bullet construction for the velocity at the time of impact and sure placement. I've killed 'em at distance, up close and in between. My normal is anywhere from 5 yards to 25 yards. All I look for is sure-fire sufficiency at my place of hunting and go for it.

  13. #33
    Mosin Guy/Forum Sponsor Josh Smith's Avatar
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    These days I consider it killing, not hunting. The past several years I've not wanted to mess with it. We're blessed with food and I kinda like watching deer.

    However, my wife wants to hunt, so I bought her a rifle and will go with her to guide and show her how to dress out.

    Deer don't detect me as easily as others and walk close. My deer rifle is a T/C New Englander with round ball and about 50grns 2Fg. Range is generally always under 50 yards, so I just don't need more.

    Regards,

    Josh

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  14. #34
    Boolit Master

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    In general most of my shots are in the 50-100 yard zone , but I can and will go further . Most of the time I use a 3006 model 70 with a 130 gr Speer hp and a case full of imr 4350 , I know it's a varmint tip but the deer I take are usually 80-100 lb . The last one I took I used a 300 win mag and knocked a hole through a high shoulder hit I could put my arm through at 50-60 yards I don't like to lose game so I kill it wear I want it to stay . No such thing as over kill dead is dead I'm not knocking the way others hunt but this is how I do it .

  15. #35
    Boolit Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    Proper bullet selection for the intended velocity/target and proper placement is the key. Total I have killed about 180 whitetails. Lost one do too bad shot placement and had a couple of close to lost do to selecting bullets designed for much larger game. About 50 of those were with the 243 Win at yardages up to 350 yards with zero issues.

    calibers used:

    22 Long Rifle - Drove a wrecker in high school. Part of that was dispatching animals hit by vehicles - deer, horses, cattle . For butchering hogs and cattle.
    22 Mag - A couple of bulls that were old or really bad attitudes. This were made into sausage.
    .223
    22-250
    225 Winchester
    220 Swift
    .243
    6mm Br.
    25/20
    25/06
    260 Rem
    6.5 JDJ
    270 Win.
    7mm Mag.
    30/30
    30/40 Krag
    308
    30/06
    300 Weatherby
    303 Brit.
    338 Win Mag.
    30 Herrett
    357 Herrett
    357 Rem Mag.
    35 Remington
    375 Win
    375 H&H Mag
    44/40
    44 Mag
    45 Colt
    45/70
    45 Cal round ball/conical in a Muzzle loader
    50 Cal round ball/conical in a Muzzle loader
    58 Cal round ball in a Muzzle loader
    12 gauge slug
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 05-17-2017 at 04:19 AM.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Seems to me , it is just as easy to kill a deer as it was over a hundred years ago. It is all in shot are arrow placement.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    I will remove 20 antler less deer off a farm before hunting season this year due to crop damage. I don't really hunt any more it's killing and I don't enjoy it . But every once in a while I will go set up for hunting season , and just relax and watch the critters and the younger hunters much more pleasant .

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Most people just go for the shoulder, I have a tendency not to because I like meat.

  19. #39
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    my furthest shot on a doe was 365+/- yards, it was a ruger #1 in 270 with 130gr bt/imr4320. i've killed 7 or 8 deer that were 100 - 300 yards. i have killed deer(don't know the number) at 50 - 100 yards. most of my kills are under 50 yards. i've taken deer that measure in feet instead of yards. i've killed an 8pt that was 12' from me(no blind or treestand). last year my old man shot a 8pt that was 20'(no blind or treestand). most of my deer were taken at 30-35 yards.

    here in swPA we have deer killed in feet and 600-700 yards. i don't and will never go 700 yards for a deer. since i've gone to cast boolits, 150 yards is more than enuff. i could do 200 yards but i set my own limits. in archery i go 40 yards, 45 yards if the buck's antlers is any good. i hunt archery with a crossbow(i'm disabled) so i don't do a compound bow anymore.

    if shooting a deer/elk/whatever at 600-700 yards, then you are a shooter, not a hunter. that is just my 2cents.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    I do both. Last year I used my 1895 in 405 for a cow elk, absolutely no challenge at all. I used my 300wsm when I had a governors tag for deer in colorado, shot that buck at 396.
    Put 4 338 win mags in a huge black bear a few years back, first one would have killed him, as well as the 2nd and third, the 4th was insurance when he ended up 20' from me. I have a policy that if it is still up or moving, I keep shooting.
    If I want to make sure I kill something quick, I usually use something fast. As others have stated, the west presents a different situation where fat slow bullets don't have much place. Sure, getting closer is a good choice, but on public land it doesn't always work out to well to spend the time. Someone else saw that animal too and got him before you did.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check