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Thread: ar 15 cast loads intell?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy Littlewolf's Avatar
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    ar 15 cast loads intell?

    ok here goes
    20" 1/7RHnato twist
    new dpms upper, bolt carrier
    gi bolt , gas rings
    gi buffer , spring

    i have the 47gr spire point 225450 1cav mold. read a lot of 55+grn cast with powder charge of imr or hodgdons 4895 between 18rgn - 22.0grn some filler some not. some powder coated some lubed.
    i plan for all boolits to be checked, mostly PC"d

    here is you chance to the guys that have tried and succeded loading for ar15's to make inteligent suggestions for how i should load cast ammo for fastas i can squeeze the trigger shooting.

    thanks guys in advance

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy FLHTC's Avatar
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    Get your alloy hard. I use 10 to 12% Linotype. There are plenty of good lubes but I use Jakes Scarlet. Gas checks and sized to .225.

    http://www.jakesproducts.com/xcart/

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
    Eddie17's Avatar
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    Just came back from the range with my first AR build.
    My cast bullets were loaded to long for my rifle. Lee mold, PC'd, only loaded 20 so went home and shortened OAL. Back to range after seating bullets deeper hit steel plates at 100 and 200 yards"
    Plates are 12" plus or minus.
    Will go for paper next, just happy to get the rifle running,
    Used Lee C225-55 -R, pushed with 22g of IMR 4895,
    also started with 55g FMJBT over 23.5g IMR to sight in.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    Sghinds's Avatar
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    I have loaded the Lee C225-55 powder coated with and without gas checks. 19gr of Winchester 748 with no gas checks gave me my best group, 2 1/2 inch at 100 yards. I have since loaded up 50 more rounds to test lower powder charges (17gr-19gr in .5 gr increments) and have 5 of each with and without gas checks. I plan to shoot them as soon as I can get some free time to test to make sure my previous session and the 19gr of 748 with no gas check is in fact my best and most accurate load. I loaded my previous rounds from 19.0gr - 23.0 gr and the groups got really big the higher I went. So thats my main reason for going lower, hopefully I can get better than 2 1/2 inches, but if not, that is more than accurate enough for just range plinking with the AR.

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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Littlewolf's Avatar
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    thanks guys
    if anybody else has intell i would greatly appreciate it.
    my barrel has the 1/7RH nato twist, im guessing i may need a heavier than 55gr boolit

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    I realize cast and jacketed bullets have different characteristics, but give the 55 cast a workout before you buy something else. I didn't expect 53 Sierra MKs would shoot accurately in a 1 in 7" twist, but they do in my Colts. A .22 centerfire will often work very well with wheelweight soft bullets at higher velocities as long as the fit is good, but it's worth experimenting with different degrees of hardness.

    You may be able to get by without a gas check, but generally a gas check design will be more accurate with gas checks in place, particularly if velocities exceed a moderate level. Certainly worth trying with and without.

  7. #7
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    I had a Herters version of the 225 450
    good luck not damaging the nose during sizing and/or GC seating/crimping.
    I never loaded it for AR and suspect as you already stated, it's probably too light and I'll add it has a short bearing surface for your 1:7 twist.

    I tried it in a slow twist Hornet and wasn't impressed with accuracy, but I suspect it was poor runout caused by a seating die that didn't do it's job correctly, I sold the mold before I realized the issue...as I figured it out with a different boolit at a later date.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy Littlewolf's Avatar
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    JonB, thank you. i have a 1cav ideal 225450 it will reliably make a $0.25 hole w a 5shot in my NEF hornet, BUT like you said in a 1/7 twist there is a lot of doubt unless its BHN26 lead and that is sketchy. to me the bator is an ugly design i'll look into somebody else's 55gr+ design

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy Smk SHoe's Avatar
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    Look at Arsenal mold's "Elvis". it's a 61 grain ( mine throws at 62ish) .225 Slick side for PCing. Mine in front of 21ish grains of AA2230 cycles reliability and has pretty good accuracy. Bullet is designed to feed, nice smooth ogive and a long nose.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    I shoot the rcbs 55 grain (forget the mold number, but its the flat nose), pc, over 20-22 grains aa2230. grapefruit size groups at 200 m with a little 1-4x scope. no leading, and cycles 100%.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
    Sghinds's Avatar
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    I went out this weekend and shot my cast/pc bullets. Had 7 fail to chamber, I think they were loaded a touch too long, but overall a successful trip. Pics have the load data (powder charge, GC/no GC). I was shooting with a slight crosswind, so don't know how much of an effect it had on my groups. I am not looking for super precision, just decent plinking ammo for some range/trigger time. Mold is the Lee 225-55 6 cavity, Traffic orange PC from Smoke and sized to 225 with a Lee push through sizer.












  12. #12
    Boolit Bub nh7792's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sghinds View Post
    I went out this weekend and shot my cast/pc bullets. Had 7 fail to chamber, I think they were loaded a touch too long, but overall a successful trip. Pics have the load data (powder charge, GC/no GC). I was shooting with a slight crosswind, so don't know how much of an effect it had on my groups. I am not looking for super precision, just decent plinking ammo for some range/trigger time. Mold is the Lee 225-55 6 cavity, Traffic orange PC from Smoke and sized to 225 with a Lee push through sizer.











    Nice to see the difference between GC and no GC with PC.

  13. #13
    What overall length are yall using with the Lee molds. It'll be a bit till i can afford a good spire tip mold.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I'd like to know how in the world you got the Lee 55gr to shoot WITHOUT gas checks. With AL checks I get about 4" groups at 50 yards. Without the checks it 2 feet or more at 50 yards.

    I see no evidence of bullet failure (no fouling in the bore). I size mine .2255" and PC them. The loads should be in the 2000fps range and do cycle the rifle which has a 1in9 twist barrel.

    I'm not the only one who has had results like this either. Same goes for the AL gas checks. Most good results I've seen with the Lee 55gr was when using copper checks.

    Motor
    Last edited by Motor; 12-25-2017 at 03:27 PM. Reason: To satisfy language police :)

  15. #15
    Boolit Master flyingmonkey35's Avatar
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    I still just shoot my bolt action Savage

    Lee 55grn powder coated no gas check. Over 8 grains of trail boss

    It my 22lr replacement.

    I split a card with it at 50 feet.

    For the AR I just use Xtreme bullets. I don't shoot it enough mess with cast anymore And gas checks suck to put on.


    Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser Mike View Post
    What overall length are yall using with the Lee molds. It'll be a bit till i can afford a good spire tip mold.
    I'm using 2.125" OAL with the Lee 55gr cast bullet in .223 Rem. I get good reliable function in an inexpensive AR-15 upper. Like I said above though I haven't been able to find good accuracy yet. This project has been on the back burner.

    I'm real tempted to get a .225" reamer and have my friend who owns a tool grinding business grid a pilot on it to ream out the gas check bores and make it a plain flat base mold.

    Motor

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    I was given some 223 cast bullets , enough to play with they where 55-57 grains gas checked white label lube. H4895 powder I got reliable function at 20 grains and best groups at 21.5 . I ran out of those bullets but I plan on getting back to it eventually

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlewolf View Post
    thanks guys
    if anybody else has intell i would greatly appreciate it.
    my barrel has the 1/7RH nato twist, im guessing i may need a heavier than 55gr boolit
    I read an article where they did some testing with light j bullets in faster twist barrels and it shows no ill effect or loss of accuracy.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mto7464 View Post
    I read an article where they did some testing with light j bullets in faster twist barrels and it shows no ill effect or loss of accuracy.
    The results of that report are correct IF one is using a quality commercial bullet that is balanced and that has a strong enough jacket to hold up to the high RPMs. Another caveat is the shorter bullets at Higher RPM are not as accurate at longer ranges.....you don't/won't see any match shooters shooting them at HV/RPM at long range.

    With cast bullets the conclusion of that article do not apply.

    It is quite refreshing to see (f)actual AR cast bullet test targets posted. I commend Squinds.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    The results of that report are correct IF one is using a quality commercial bullet that is balanced and that has a strong enough jacket to hold up to the high RPMs. Another caveat is the shorter bullets at Higher RPM are not as accurate at longer ranges.....you don't/won't see any match shooters shooting them at HV/RPM at long range.

    With cast bullets the conclusion of that article do not apply.

    It is quite refreshing to see (f)actual AR cast bullet test targets posted. I commend Squinds.
    Of course you are right, I use and 80 grain out to 600 and 69 for 2-300. But for short range should not be a big deal.

    Squinds, thanks for the work up. I may be scraping my ideas to cast for my ar's. J's are too cheap.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check