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Thread: Small ring Mauser 98?????

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub 175lt2's Avatar
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    Small ring Mauser 98?????

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    The first pic of the single reciever is the one in question, yes it is a 98 Mauser but with a small receiver ring and still has the 1.1" barrel threads of a standard m98. The other two pictures are for comparison with a Belgian 98, they are the same except one is a small ring, the bolts even interchange. Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	195161 The small ring is marked Mauser mod 1928 and was originally barreled with a 17" carbine length barrel chambered in 7.65 argentine. Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	195163The barrel is engraved, Armeria Alemana Buenos Aires

    i picked this up as a complete rifle at a gun show and I intended to use it for a build project, I didn't even realize it was a small ring until I tore it apart.

    At at first I was thinking it was a Mexican Mauser possibly built for Argentina but if I'm not mistaken the Mexican mausers had a smaller barrel thread.

    Does anybody know what I have or have you ever seen one like it?
    also do you think it would be safe to use for the project I have planned, .358 win ?

    any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    I am not familiar with that particular model but it appears to be identical to the KAR98. Small ring and large (1.10") thread standard length action. They are not suitable for the higher pressure rounds like the 358 but are more suited to such as the 9.3x57. Very little difference in performance and the 9.3 should feed without much tinkering. Also there is the "cool" factor of the 9.3x57! Classic round in a classic rifle, what's not to like?

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub 175lt2's Avatar
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    Cool factor indeed, what's bore diameter of the 9.3, is it also .358? I'm not opposed to buying another reamer, but I already have all the parts to complete this .358 project barrel included.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    My Turkish Mauser are 98s with the small barrel threads. I would have no issue putting a 358 on one.

    9.3 is .366

    after rereading the OP I see I misunderstood what you have. I'm not familiar with that model. The guys over at Mauser Central can tell you all about it.
    Last edited by Wolfer; 05-09-2017 at 10:57 PM.
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  5. #5
    In Remembrance


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    I have an Kar 98a that came from a `BUBBA` home. It is a small ring that has a double date stamp of 1918/1920 with an Erfurt arsenal stamp. I found a Bishop sporter stock designed for this model Mauser, no longer made, added a Timney trigger and a Scout pistol scope and homemade mount to the rear sight barrel band from plans in an old Rifle mag article. It is a proverbial nail driver.Robert

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Tenbender's Avatar
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    Be careful with a high pressure round in the small ring 98. They were designed for a 40,000 to 45,000 cup round. However I have seen a couple of 22 250's on that action. Those never gave any problems.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    You could certainly chamber it to 358 win and use lower pressure handloads and get along fine. The danger lies in the possibility of the rifle getting into the hands of someone who is not aware of it's limitations and starts shooting full house 358's in it. These type of actions have the least thickness in the ring area due to the small ring size and the large threads. The failure point is actually the stretching of the ring longitudinally between the barrel buttress and the locking lugs. It would be much more prudent to chamber it in a cartridge that's more suited to it.
    There is a 9x57 caliber that I believe uses 358 bullets but it is pretty uncommon. You would still be looking at another reamer.
    Whatever you choose, enjoy. I built a 7x57 on a KAR98 for my son in law and they make a nice little sporter!
    Wolfer is correct in that the fellas over on Mauser Central could offer you a lot of help.
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    Last edited by Bodean98; 05-11-2017 at 05:06 PM. Reason: added pics

  8. #8
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    The small ring Mausers kind'a scare me. However, I have an old M-95 that I'm thinking about making into a .257 Roberts for my DIL. The problem with the small ring actions is that you can never quite know what kind of heat treating it got. And if made in wartime, you have to wonder about sabotage efforts. War was a nasty business back then, and killing even one "enemy combatant" back then was a significant goal for many. But if done by a good and knowledgeable 'smith, they CAN make up into really nice, light sporters.

    I personally would never chamber one for any high pressure ctg. because so many have no clue about such matters, and if it'll chamber, will likely shoot it. Even +P .257 loads are a tad milder than many calibers today, and I'd only load to std. pressure levels.

    So these guns need to definitely be handled and 'smithed with care and discretion, and loaded and shot ONLY with milder mannered calibers. I've heard of them being made up in .35 Rem., and thought about doing mine in that caliber for myself. Would make a fine .35 cal. cast shooter in a 1:16" twist barrel, I'd think. And probably no fiddling with the feed rails for it, either, which CAN get rather spendy if you're paying to have it done. 7x57 is another great caliber for them, too, but again, no +P loads for these actions, no matter what the caliber.

    I like mine, and got it for a song. Sporterizing it right will NOT be cheap, though. Just a very, very nice sporter. I'm thinking about a barrel tapered like the old M-70 Fwt. contour. I think McGowan makes these? Cut to 20.5-21", and with a neat, trim stock with cast off at heel to accomodate the fairer sex, and some decent figure and contrast in the wood, and a good checkering job, and .... I think my DIL would come to love it, and she's no great gun lover at present. I think that done right, her mind could be changed, and most especially if she didn't get kicked by the caliber. She's athletic and a real go-getter, and has played sports all her life, and lives it now through the grandboys. She's a real tiger, and I love that gal. She's very rational and has a good job where responsibility and judgment are crucial, so .... I think it'd give her a new lease on what shooting is all about. And if I teach her how to shoot, I think she'll at some point, look up at me and say something like, "I didn't realize shooting was this involved!" A light 2-7x scope, and I think she'd wind up finding hunting a very interesting challenge, and I know she'd appreciate the quiet and the activity of the woods. The cold? That might not set well with her, but .... she's a real toughie when she needs to be.

    The small ring Mausers CAN be made into some very nice rifles, BUT .... one DOES need to use good judgment in picking the caliber for them, and in loading for them, and it's VERY important that the builder pick a really good and knowledgable 'smith to do the work, so that "unexpected" problems are averted before they occur. There ARE records of folks blowing themselves up with them, so .... the wise learn from others' past mistakes!

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub 175lt2's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the help everyone! Right now I'm thinking I'll go ahead and build this one with the parts and barrel I have and chamber it in .35 rem, bodean98 I like the idea of clambering it in 9x57 that's still an option if I can find a reamer, I love old obsolete and unusual cartridges.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master


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    You might consider the 35x57. It is specifically for Mausers, especially those with the sorter 3" magazines. The cases are easily formed from 30-06, 35 Whelen and 8x57 cases. Dies are easy and inexpensive compared to custom or odd chamberings as they are simply shortened standard 35 Whelen dies. I use a standard 2 die (FL and seater) RCBS set plus a NS die. The dies are shortened so an 8x57 is reformed to have the neck lencth of the 35 Whelen. Case capacity is very close to the 358 Win. The length and taper of the case are perfect for Mausers and the 35x57s feed slicker than snot.

    I've rebarreled several SR Mausers using the 14" twist Shilen 26" short chambered 35 Rem barrels available from Brownells. Chambering is easily done with a 35 Whelen finish reamer and headspaced to the formed cases. Goodsteel also does this chambering as the "35 XCB". It is an excellent cartridge especially well suited to Mauser actions and cast bullets.

    Larry Gibson

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I did the exact same thing as above except mine is .338 cal. Same overall length as a 7x57 including the neck which is longer than 8x57. Reamed the chamber with 338-06 reamer until it cleaned up the old shoulder.
    Cut about .250 off a set of 338-06 dies. Slickest feeding gun I own and smacks deer hard.
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  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodean98 View Post

    I am not familiar with that particular model but it appears to be identical to the KAR98.

    They are not suitable for the higher pressure rounds like the 358 .

    With all due respect, you are gravely mistaken - ANY Model 1898/98 Mauser (including Small Ring actions) in good condition are suitable for any cartridge that will fit the magazine.

    FWIW, a cock-on-opening "Small Ring Mauser 98" is NOT a "small ring Mauser" - which are ALL the cock-on-closing Mauser 91/93/94/95 & 96 actions.

    (The clock-on-closing small ring Mausers ARE only suitable for cartridges in the 7x57/8x57/larger family)

    I've had several Husqvarna Small Ring Mauser 98's that were branded for S&W in the late 1970's, that were chambered in .308 Win , .270, & .30-06 - and found them to be fine, lightweight sporting rifles.




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  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Have made several 308 Win rifles from small ring Mauser actions. Got cut rifled barrels made in Israel when they were making 308 Win bolt action rifles from 98K receivers. Got the barrels off of Shotgun News many years ago, purchased 8 of the barrel blanks at the time.
    The rifles shoot very accurate and have killed deer with the small ring actions.
    My grandson will get the small ring rifles in a few more years.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Mauser produced several small ring 98 style actions, and Serbia built some for the 7mm.

    The large ring 98 action was a development of a 1896 sporting rifle quick take down action. That action used interrupted threads to secure the barrel so to make it a stronger and more rigid lock up they increased the diameter of the receiver ring and barrel shank. They then chose to build a large ring action with conventional threads to produce an action that was stronger and safer for use with the newer S Bore cartridge.

    IIRC the shroud , cocking piece and firing pin of the sporter 96 action, not to be confused with the cock on closing Swedish 96 action, differed in several details , the firing pin was threaded like that of some very early small ring actions.

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub 175lt2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro View Post
    With all due respect, you are gravely mistaken - ANY Model 1898/98 Mauser (including Small Ring actions) in good condition are suitable for any cartridge that will fit the magazine.

    FWIW, a cock-on-opening "Small Ring Mauser 98" is NOT a "small ring Mauser" - which are ALL the cock-on-closing Mauser 91/93/94/95 & 96 actions.

    (The clock-on-closing small ring Mausers ARE only suitable for cartridges in the 7x57/8x57/larger family)

    I've had several Husqvarna Small Ring Mauser 98's that were branded for S&W in the late 1970's, that were chambered in .308 Win , .270, & .30-06 - and found them to be fine, lightweight sporting rifles.




    .
    Yes it is indeed a cock on opening model 98 my concern is with the reciever ring having the 1.1" threads there isn't much steel there being a small ring. I would still love to build this in .358 win

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    As a general rule in thread design if there are five full threads then the maximum load can be applied to the threads. As indicated earlier have built 308 Win rifles on the small ring design without any problems, got several small ring Mausers some years ago in a trade out deal for working on several other rifles for a guy.

  17. #17
    In Remembrance


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    The Kar98a model that I have was originally made as a shorter and lighter assault version of the standard Kar98. I left mine in 8mm as I was tight for money, I`ve never regretted doing so.Robert

  18. #18
    Boolit Bub 175lt2's Avatar
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    Well it sounds like the .358 plan may be back on, I did read somewhere that a small ring 98 is just as good as a large ring, I'll probably only ever shoot it with cast at around 2000 fps or less and I don't imagine I'd ever sell it.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro View Post
    With all due respect, you are gravely mistaken - ANY Model 1898/98 Mauser (including Small Ring actions) in good condition are suitable for any cartridge that will fit the magazine.

    FWIW, a cock-on-opening "Small Ring Mauser 98" is NOT a "small ring Mauser" - which are ALL the cock-on-closing Mauser 91/93/94/95 & 96 actions.

    (The clock-on-closing small ring Mausers ARE only suitable for cartridges in the 7x57/8x57/larger family)

    I've had several Husqvarna Small Ring Mauser 98's that were branded for S&W in the late 1970's, that were chambered in .308 Win , .270, & .30-06 - and found them to be fine, lightweight sporting rifles.




    .
    ^^^ What he said. Small ring 98's are still 98's and were always prized for making sporting rifles of.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    175lt2,
    All small ring mausers are not created equal. All mod. 98 mausers are not created equal. Comparing your action to a modern production Husky would be like comparing a Model T to a Mustang.

    A little math:
    Your action,
    Small ring (1.3") minus large thread shank (1.1") leaves .2". Divided by 2 equals .1" thickness of steel in the threaded portion of the ring.

    Large ring (1.4") minus large thread shank (1.1") leaves .3". Divide by 2 equals .15" thickness of steel in the threaded portion.
    Small ring (1.3") minus small thread shank(.98") leaves .32". Divide by 2 equals .16" thickness.
    There is approx. 50% more steel in the second two examples than what your action is. I hope this helps in clearing up my meaning.
    I highly recommend posting your question on Mauser Central. Those fellows are experts regarding Mausers. Many of them are highly sought after 'smiths and examples of their work have graced the pages of magazines. There may even be some names you recognize. They can help you with your questions.

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