.38 special bullet size

[lotech]

Granted, this is hairsplitting, but a lot of what we do in the way of experimentation is... for years I've run my .38 Special and .357 Magnum cast bullets through a SAECO .358" size die. Bullets are cast from wheelweight alloy and the as-cast .360" bullets come out of the sizing die at about .3575" or .3576". These bullets will snugly pass through chamber throats on some of my Colt and S&W revolvers, but for the cylinder throats on other Colt and S&W revolvers, the bullets are too large. I use the bullets anyway and loaded cartridges chamber fine. Accuracy is generally good with my handloads that approximate standard velocity factory ammo using the 160 grain H&G #51 SWC.

Lately, I've been experimenting with running the bullets through a .359" die; they come out of that one at .3585". Testing is not complete at this point, but preliminary results show a very slight accuracy improvement in comparison with the smaller diameter bullets. Anyone else using bullets slightly larger than .358"?

[Outpost75]

I have two older S&W revolvers which have HUGE cylinder throats which require. 360.-361" bullets.
I also have an old 3-screw Ruger which likes .360". In .38 Special with soft 8-10 BHN alloy and standard pressure loads, such as 3.5 grains of Bullseye with 150-160-grain bullet, a bit larger does no harm.

[Wally]

I also use a .359" sizer die for cast bullets in my .38 Spl & .357 Magnum pistols.

[mozeppa]

if yer clock chimes every half hour...and bongs every hour...don't fix it , cuz it ain't broke!

[FergusonTO35]

My shaky hands can't discern the accuracy difference between .357 and .358 in the .38 Special. .358 gives more consistent velocity so that's what I use. I size (or rather, just lube) boolits to .360 for my Marlin 1894C.

[tazman]

I use molds that drop anywhere from .358 to .360 and usually use them as cast in my 38 specials. They all chamber fine in my revolvers and I can see no real difference in accuracy.
The throats in my revolvers are all over the place as far as size but, in each revolver, the throats are all sized the same in that cylinder.

[avogunner]

Ok, this discussion raises a question about reloading dies. Do you guys have custom expanders to keep the ID of the .38spl case at a specific size (say for example using a .360 sized boolit)? If not, have you seen the case sizing/swaging the boolit down when you are loading?

[Sasquatch-1]

If the bullets are snug in the cylinder at 3575 why would you make them larger? Do the cylinder throats swage the bullets down when using the larger bullets? And, final question, have you slugged the barrel and do you have the results of that?

Granted, this is hairsplitting, but a lot of what we do in the way of experimentation is... for years I've run my .38 Special and .357 Magnum cast bullets through a SAECO .358" size die. Bullets are cast from wheelweight alloy and the as-cast .360" bullets come out of the sizing die at about .3575" or .3576". These bullets will snugly pass through chamber throats on some of my Colt and S&W revolvers, but for the cylinder throats on other Colt and S&W revolvers, the bullets are too large. I use the bullets anyway and loaded cartridges chamber fine. Accuracy is generally good with my handloads that approximate standard velocity factory ammo using the 160 grain H&G #51 SWC.

Lately, I've been experimenting with running the bullets through a .359" die; they come out of that one at .3585". Testing is not complete at this point, but preliminary results show a very slight accuracy improvement in comparison with the smaller diameter bullets. Anyone else using bullets slightly larger than .358"?

[bedbugbilly]

I have quite a few different molds for 38/357 and with the range lead I use, some drop at .358, others larger with .360 not uncommon. I started size them .358 when I got started reloading but then played with "as cast", etc. I will state that I tumble lube in alox/paste wax and am pretty much a "plinker", not a competitive shooter - and the many 38s and 357s I have shoot better than I am capable of . . . but I digress.

I played with sized and as cast - noticed a little bit better accuracy with shooting "as cast" which usually was around .359 - .360 area. I decided to buy a 2 cavity Lee mold for the 158 grain tumble lube semi wad cutter "just to see" how it did. I wanted to be able to get the traditional 358-311 to work well but when I started loading and shooting the tumble lubed Lee boolits, they just seemed to shoot the most accurately out of my Colt, Ubertis, Smiths and Ruger. My mold drops the tumble lube SWC at around .3595. Try as I might to get the more traditional boolits from my Ideal/Lyman molds to shoot equally as well, I still keep going back to the Lee 158 TL SWC. I guess the lesson for me was that "if it works and ain't broke, don't try and fix it". Now, for the shooting I do, I pretty much just stuff that Lee 158 TL SWC in my 38 brass as well as the small amount of 357 that I shoot and it seems to work the best in all of my revolvers - and much to my surprise, it's one of the best out of my 357 Handi Rifle as well. And, on the plus side, I no longer am spending time sizing for my 38/357 reloads.

[lotech]

Sasquatch- I have not slugged the bores. I'm beginning to wonder if the slight accuracy improvement I've noticed in using a .359" die might have something to do with less bullet distortion when sizing. Again, the difference isn't great and I could easily get by fine sizing everything in the smaller bullet size die.

I'm sixty-eight and the sight picture isn't as sharp for me as it once was. As a result, I have to fire many groups before I can comfortably make a valid assessment. I consider a two or two-and-a-half-inch benchrested group fired at twenty-five yards very good to excellent, but that may be a low standard of accuracy for others.

[tazman]

If the bullets are snug in the cylinder at 3575 why would you make them larger? Do the cylinder throats swage the bullets down when using the larger bullets?

Using larger boolits is more not wanting to have the extra step of running the boolits through a sizer if it makes no difference in accuracy(this assumes tumble lubing). The cylinder throats will swage down an oversize boolit as it passes through.

[lotech]

I run all bullets through a size die, at least for lubrication. I tried tumble lubing years ago and am not a fan of that process.

[tazman]

It doesn't work well for everyone. Lots of different ways to do things.

[Sasquatch-1]

If the cylinder throats swage the bullet down smaller then the bore this is where the problem could start. I think the simplest check for the OP would be to run a bullet through the smallest diameter cylinder chamber and then see how far it drops into the forcing cone. Not very scientific but what do you expect, I live in W. V.

The cylinder throats will swage down an oversize boolit as it passes through.

[tazman]

Yes, the throats need to be the right size in relation to the groove diameter of the barrel. If the cylinder throats are too small, you will have problems no matter what your boolit size.
In my case, the cylinder throats are .002 larger than my groove diameter. That is why it works for me.

[tazman]

Ok, this discussion raises a question about reloading dies. Do you guys have custom expanders to keep the ID of the .38spl case at a specific size (say for example using a .360 sized boolit)? If not, have you seen the case sizing/swaging the boolit down when you are loading?

I haven't had that problem in 38 Special. I use an alloy that is hard enough for that not to be a problem with 38 cases(water dropped range scrap with a small amount of lino added). I do have that problem with 9mm if I try to seat the boolits too deeply into the case.
Most 38 Special cases have thin enough walls that squeezing down the boolit bases isn't an issue. Under the proper circumstances(soft alloy, extra thick cases,etc) even 38 Special cases can swage boolit bases smaller.
The problem usually raises it head when loading wadcutters(which are longer boolits) deep enough into the case to crimp over the end of the boolit. Some brass just isn't set up for this process.

[lotech]

I've checked a number of times over the years and have never had a problem with .38 bullets being reduced in diameter after seating. In fact, I don't recall this ever happening with other cartridges either. I've used mostly Winchester brass for everything.

[tazman]

I've checked a number of times over the years and have never had a problem with .38 bullets being reduced in diameter after seating. In fact, I don't recall this ever happening with other cartridges either. I've used mostly Winchester brass for everything.

I was experimenting with heavy/longer boolits in 9mm when I ran into the problem. Specifically, the Lee 358-150-1R. This needed to be seated deeply enough that I couldn't find any brass that would not swage the base down a few thousandths.
I switched to a boolit design from NOE that cured the problem by having a longer nose and not needing to be seated as deeply into the case.

[charlie b]

I never sized pistol bullets. I pan lubed them cookie cutter style. A little messy but it worked well for me.

Accuracy was more about the load and the gun for me. My Python liked heavy charges and 140gn or heavier bullets. FIL had a Uberti .357 SA that liked light charges and 125gn bullets. His Marlin rifle liked heavy bullets but lower charges.

Our 1911 pistols all liked near factory velocities and 200 or 230 gn bullets. If the bullet fed cleanly it shot well.

[FergusonTO35]

Pan lubing works great, if you don't really cast that much it's a good option. I got a lube sizer because of all the extra time I was spending removing stray lube from boolits and dies. I would love to see Lee's take on a lube sizer machine. I bet they could create one that mounts on your press and costs half as much as the others. I've had plans rolling around in my head for such a machine for a few years now.