A photo of Some of my "Wildcat" as Dummy Crtridges:
Left to Right: .25ACP/6,35 Browning @.905" OAL; .25ALR/6.35x24mmSR @1.293" OAL; .25 Magnum Auto./6.35x26mmSR @.1.566" OAL; .25ALS/6.35x28.5mmSR @ 1.407" OAL. All With .250" sized Hornady #2510 60 grain Jacketed Soft Flat Point Bullet.
Note: .25ACP Case Length = .612"; .25ALR Case Length = .960"; .25 Magnum Auto. Case Length = 1.055"; .25ALS Case Length = 1.125".
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Last edited by Chev. William; 09-02-2017 at 12:18 PM.
A Pair of Modified Tools:
First, A Lee Champfering Hand Tool that is TOO TALL to use with .25ACP Cases was Shortened in a Lathe to allow holding the case and champfering the Outside edge of Mouth.
Left to Right: .25ACP Case; Stock Lee tool on a .25ACP Case; Modified Tool on a .25ACP Case.
And Second, A Lee Universal Expander Die Small Case Punch is Modified to make a .250" Diameter Case mouth Expander.
Left to Right: Stock Lee Small Case Expander insert; Modified Lee Small Case Expander Insert with Lathe turned shank of .250"/.240" diameters.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Work with a Redding Hand Case Trimmer:
Through the Kindness of a fellow Poster on the Forum, I acquired a NOS slightly used Redding #1400 Case Hand Trimmer.
I now have done Twenty Reformed 5.7x28mm Cases; trimming them to about 1.125" length and found that the Length Variation is Greater Than I had thought.
it is Running from 1.125" up to 1.130" possibly due to 'drift of The Length Setting in use but not yet Identified As to cause or Causes.
Resetting the 'Fine' Length adjustment is an interim 'fix' but seems to drift again with Further Use.
Due to "Problems" with my Fingers; I seem to have a "One Sitting" limit of about ten cases on this hand trimmer. Then I need to take a break until my fingers recover again. This may be An Age Related probem for me.
"Cogitating" upon the Drift in settings:
Is it possible the Coarse Setting is 'Slipping' slightly due to exerted Cutting Forces?
Is it Possible the 'Fine' Adjustment is moving due to Friction of the Ring Against the Stop Surface?
Is there possible 'Wear' to either the Cutting lip(s) OR the Stop Surface of the Trimmer Body?
Is this variation in Trim Length due to Variations in Rim diameters?
Is this variation in Trim Lengths Due to Variations in Clamping Force Applied?
It Does NOT appear To be Temperature Related as no Part of the tool or work piece seems to get Warmer in use as I try to keep the Moving surfaces of the Tool Lubricated with light oil. Touching the Cutter, work piece nor Rotating Holder gives any Perceived feelings of Warming.
Clamping Forces seem to be Consistent by feel when I close and open The Collet.
Further Observation of Clamping effects needs to be done.
Theoretically, I believe I could make a "Collet Adapter and Closer" to Fit the Lyman Trimmer Body in place of the Lyman case holder assembly. My thinking is that the Collet Adapter would be clamped in the Body like the Lyman holed is presently; Be a hollow Turning with the Collet end extended out the face of the Lyman body and using a Spiral Spring Pin to index the Collet. The Opposite end would need external threads and a retainer nut along with sufficient 'Tail' to provide a surface for the Collet closer internally threaded tube to seat against in tension. The Closer Tube would need a Hand Wheel of adequate Size to make use Comfortable.
Obviously this will take further Measurements, Thinking, and Drawing up Plans to work from.
In the Interim, some solution to the 'Drift' of trim Length in use needs to be discovered.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Last edited by Chev. William; 10-24-2017 at 12:28 PM.
Please Check Out my New Topic:
.25 Auto Long rifle Wildcat.
Chev. William
I bought two bags of Jagemann Stamping .25ACP empty Brass And did a full Bag measurement of the Trim case lengths. I found the Majority of the Cases, 63, were Trimmed to .603"-.604" with a extreme spread of .601" to .607". This seems to be near the Middle of SAAMI Recommended Length (.615" Maximum with a +0.0"/-0.020") but less than the European CIP Standard of .612" which my previous purchased PPU, CBC, and GFL cases hit at +/-0.001".
I received A Call back from Jagemann this morning Saying they were Very Interested in my Findings; they further said they would look into what the production mean value their QC department was finding and consider adjusting their tooling to yield a mean trim length closer to .612"-.615" maximum.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
I plan on opening my Box of New cast Matt's Bullets Wednesday which should contain 1000 of Lyman #257420 .65 Grain Nominal Bullets; and 1000 of Accurate Molds #311090 Heeled Bullets already sized And lubed at .312" diameter with the heel lube groove filled and a thin film of lube on the rest of the heel.
This thin film gets skived off when I load them into my sized. 32 Colt cases.
The 257420 bullets will be tumble Lubed and Sized down to .251" diameter as I need them for loading my .25ALR Cartridges with Bullseye or BE-86 propellants.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Last edited by Chev. William; 11-10-2017 at 07:15 AM.
The .257" Lyman #257420 Lubed bullets weigh between 73 and 74 Grains according to my RCBS Balance beam Scale. This is heavier than Lyman advertises for this Bullet and Mold.
I was 'Hoping' for a 65 to 67 grain bullet.
Now I will need To calculate as set of Test Loads to try as the heavier bullet will upset my previous load testing results.
On the Other Hand, this bullet may be very Interesting in my longer 'Mildcats'. and even possibly in a 25,000psi Pmax MAP load in .25ACP cases.
Approaching 150 % of 'normal' .25ACP bullet Weight!
Best Regards,
Chev. william
I don't think I have ever seen a set of "310" dies in this caliber. Might be handy to roll up a few 1,000 for the SHTF scenario.
Seems like a better Choice than a .22 RF as The .25 ACP, and my 'Mildcats' ARE easily reloaded.Originally Posted by ascast
Also the .25ACP can be Quiet if fired from a Rifle. Allowing its use for Pot Meat while not advertising to the Whole Township that someone is Hunting.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
22lr fired thru a silencer can be quiet too. 25acp doesn't gain anything from a long bbl, but thru a long bbl , 22lr beats 25 hands down.
Lyman 257420 From Matt's Bullets Drops between 73 and 74 Grains Lubed.
Sized to .251 Diameter They Are .610" long. For a .25ACP+P Ruger Revolver Load,
Using "QuickLOAD" software:
Case Length = .612"; overflow Capacity 6.7 Grains H2O;
Loaded Overall length = .905"-0.0/+.005"; Bullet Seating Depth = .317";
Propellant = Power Pistol; charge weight = 2.0 grains; Loading Ratio (fill) = 100.6%;
Barrel Length = 12".
CALCULATED But NOT TESTED Data For discussion use only:
Charge Fraction burnt at Shot Start = 1.06%; Bullet Travel at Pmax = .13";
Maximum Chamber Pressure = 25,330psi (1746 bar);
Pressure at Muzzle exit = 1027psi; bullet velocity = 1062fps;
Bullet Barrel Time = 1.237ms; Bullet energy = 185ft.lbs.; propellant Burnt = 87.3%;
Ballistic Efficiency = 37.6% .
Since my Ruger Single Eight typically Yields MV about 2.1% below Calculated, my Theoretical MV=1039fps.
I think this May be worth further testing.
Starting with a charge 10 % BELOW the Above Maximum (1.8 grains for Starting charge).
Offered for discussion.
Chev. William
I freely admit I plan on purchasing a 25 acp to Cary as a back up . and will be casting and reloading it. And I know I have heard it all about how a sling shot rock or stick would be better but alliant shows a 35 gr hp 1.7 gr bullseye at 1040 fps. And that is not quite a bb gun. Also a 25 is superior to a 22 in short barrel guns as per NRA testing. This will not be a main gun have 9 mm for that but a back up that I feel fully comfortable with. Caliber is a poor substitute for pistol craft.
Red Bear,
There are tons and tons of .25s carried every day. Yes, they aren't what you call powerful. It's still a gun, and far better than no gun, regardless of what the nay-sayers say. I have one that will put a mag into a 2.5 inch circle at 20 yards (benched) and I love it.
The .25 is a much more physically rugged cartridge than a .22 and generally much more reliable.
Good luck with yours.
Cat
Cogito, ergo armatum sum.
(I think, therefore I'm armed.)
Through a LONG Barrel, such as a 24" Rifle Barrel with Factory Loaded Ammunition, you are correct.
The .25ACP is tested at the Factories with a 6" barrel while the .22LR is tested with a 24" barrel; so the 22lr is OPTIMIZED for the Longer Barrel.
I believe the NRA tested both in Short Barrel and found the .25ACP to out perform the .22LR when shot out of SHORT Barrels.
Were you planning to carry A Long Barrel Rifle as a concealed Carry Firearm?
I do NOT plan to carry my 10-5/8" barreled Ruger Single Eight as A Concealed Carry firearm as it is NOT easily Concealed in, and of, Itself.
Home Reloading for a Strong Action Firearm IS Possible with the .25ACP, and it seems the Pmax MAP may be increased over What the FACTORIES use as they seem to Download out of difference to both Weaker and Older Firearms still in Service.
If you wish to carry a 1 to 3 inch long barreled concealable firearm I doubt you would be Satisfied with Anything short of a 45ACP loaded with Red dot or Bullseye when limited to the typical 6 Rounds in magazines for concealable Semi-Auto Pistols.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Last edited by Chev. William; 12-12-2017 at 02:34 AM.
I don't own now, nor have I ever owned a .25 ACP, but I have greatly enjoyed reading this thread, and I want you to know that thanks you you guys, I will never again feel self-conscious or inadequate about my .32 cal. Bunny Gun Fetish.
Bravo Zulu to all of you, a mention in dispatches and a double rum ration tonite!
Attachment 207652
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
Quite sensible more than a lifetimes supply.Now had it been Velo Dog we would be wondering.
Actually an old 25stevens rimfire converted to center-fire using brass from a 5.7x28FN would make
a lot more sense.
I loaded 3500 32ACP once and when I was done I gave away the dies!
Also as far as suppressed firearms I have an OLd Winchester model 67A single shot 22 that with anything other than HV ammo is quiet enough to not only hear the striker fall, but to hear the echo of the striker falling! my RWS Spring-Piston air rifle is several orders of magnitude louder!
AD
Last edited by AllanD; 11-15-2017 at 01:24 AM.
For Factory Loaded Ammo you are correct as 22Lr is tested through a 24 inch barrel and .25ACP is tested Through a a much shorter barrel.
For Hand loaded .25ACP that is loaded to SAAMI 25,000psi MAP, you may be incorrect as slower burning powders can be employed that both burn completely before the bullet exits a longer barrel and provide an longer and Stronger Push on the bullet for higher muzzle velocity and energy.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
And that special 25acp would be near worthless in the other 99.999999999% of guns chambered for it with 1" bbls.. Etc.
I have always believed you can not make up for poor pistol craft with a bigger caliber. I carry a 7 shot 9mm. And the 25 will be a back up. But plan on switching to a 32 auto ppk or copy. Have snub 44 and 357 if I feel the need just haven't felt the need perfectly comfortable with a 32 .
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