Lee shell holders, not so great

[omgb]

Well, that's my point. I like the dies...they seem to be fine. The shell holder though is an issue. When I see the case entering the seating die at varying angles it raises the hackles on the back of my neck. That is not way to promote top accuracy. I also had some difficulty case forming with this shell holder so, I'm buying another one from RCBS tailored to this specific caliber. I am not tossing my Lee gear and I'm not returning it to Lee. It is what it is. Lee makes serviceable products at a highly competitive price. When I need better, I'll just buy it. This whole shell holder thing was something I hadn't noticed until now. I suspect it's because these days I reload for and shoot more obsolete and obscure cartridges than I did for the first 40 years of my shooting life.

[No Blue]

Well, that's my point. I like the dies...they seem to be fine. The shell holder though is an issue. When I see the case entering the seating die at varying angles it raises the hackles on the back of my neck. That is not way to promote top accuracy. I also had some difficulty case forming with this shell holder so, I'm buying another one from RCBS tailored to this specific caliber. I am not tossing my Lee gear and I'm not returning it to Lee. It is what it is. Lee makes serviceable products at a highly competitive price. When I need better, I'll just buy it. This whole shell holder thing was something I hadn't noticed until now. I suspect it's because these days I reload for and shoot more obsolete and obscure cartridges than I did for the first 40 years of my shooting life.

Not sure why the shell holder will do that. Keeping everything at right angles during machining is built into the tooling and something QC will strive for. Even Lee isn't going to accept parts made 75 degrees to the horizon!

My experience has been extraction damage causing the brass to tilt; nice big bump of brass where the extractor yanked the brass hard enough to bend the case head down.

Maybe take a look at the brass?

[Taterhead]

Not sure why the shell holder will do that. Keeping everything at right angles during machining is built into the tooling and something QC will strive for. Even Lee isn't going to accept parts made 75 degrees to the horizon!

My experience has been extraction damage causing the brass to tilt; nice big bump of brass where the extractor yanked the brass hard enough to bend the case head down.

Maybe take a look at the brass?

I think he's saying that there is enough play/slack for the case to wobble and/or align askew. This was my early experience with "universal" shell holders, so I abandoned the practice.

[Soundguy]

Not sure why the shell holder will do that. Keeping everything at right angles during machining is built into the tooling and something QC will strive for. Even Lee isn't going to accept parts made 75 degrees to the horizon!

...

Maybe take a look at the brass?

You apparently didn't read the entire thread. The lee parts are not made out of square, the parts in question are made to fit multiple case heads and rims. With that, if you are using one of the cases that is on the small side, it will be able to move around slightly in the shell holder. Now, knowing that.. say you are loading a tall cartridge and seating a projectile. it is possible for it to try to cock to the side a bit when the seating stem starts to put pressure on the projectile, especially flat base ones in bottleneck brass, since the shell holder is larger than needed, it won't hold the rim of that cartridge down and let it cock a bit.

[No Blue]

You apparently didn't read the entire thread. The lee parts are not made out of square, the parts in question are made to fit multiple case heads and rims. With that, if you are using one of the cases that is on the small side, it will be able to move around slightly in the shell holder. Now, knowing that.. say you are loading a tall cartridge and seating a projectile. it is possible for it to try to cock to the side a bit when the seating stem starts to put pressure on the projectile, especially flat base ones in bottleneck brass, since the shell holder is larger than needed, it won't hold the rim of that cartridge down and let it cock a bit.

No, I read the whole thread. He was referring to the case leaning as it entered the die mouth. That's pretty specific.

You're speaking about something a little different; but if you use Lee dies, it's not an issue.

Lee seating dies have the entire bullet and upper part of the case enter the die. This aligns the bullet and case mouth, so a little slop in the shell holder is no big deal. The important part is up at the top, not the bottom.

I don't have any other dies except Lee, so I don't know if the other colors do that. But they should.

[mdi]

We could.. but it would be inacurate.

It's not hating on a product to point out it's weaknesses ( and strengths ) in comparison to other products.

For instance, on the shell holders. As pointed out. lee makes one shell holder that fits 4-5 cartridges. It doesn't fit them like a glove, but it fits them. RCBS and hornady make a shell holder for each of those cartridges that fit them like a glove.

The difference, A small trade off in fit vs a tradeoff in price. IE.. if you are not bench rest shooting -small- peanuts at 12000 yards with your 20006BR super charged bolt action space gun, then the ammo from the 'universal' shell holder is probably fine. The pig or deer at 50-100 yards will have a hard time telling the difference. The entire universal set costs less than 3 individual shell holders from the other 2 brands mentioned.

It's a straight trade off. money vs fit. There is no hate in pointing that out.

Reread the post I quoted. Nothing to do with quality, nor a comparison to other manufacturers. There is a phenomenon that every time Lee products are mention, someone comes out with something derogatory.

I worked as a heavy equipment mechanic for a large west coast city for the last 25 years of my career. I saw firsthand the "tool snobbery" similar to that of reloaders; "If it ain't SnapOn ( or MAC, or whatever the person bragging uses) it's junk". The same with reloading equipment; "If it ain't RCBS, (Dillon or whatever the poster uses) it's junk. Most of the Lee Bashing is parroting what has been posted on forums by someone that didn't read the instructions or can't use hand tools. I have used Lee products alongside my RCBS, Redding, Forster, Pacific, Sinclair, etc. tools and find no problems with Lee that don't show up with the others. Some think they are "cute" posting **** about Lee and some may think they sound more experienced or more of a sophisticated reloader by bad-mouthing Lee. Lee doesn't need my help defending them I just get tired of the BS with Lee Bashing, it's a waste of space...

Latest example; The new Lee Bench Prime. I read some really bad things about them when they first came out but I bought one anyway, always suspicious about bad Lee reports. I put my tool together and quickly primed 60 cases and had 3 oops! I reread the instructions, looked at how the tool works, and have installed mebbe 2000 primers trouble free. I normally dump 100 primers into the tray and prime 100 cases non stop. Did I get the only Lee tool that works? Or did the critics do as I did and try to "do it my way" rather than read the instructions? But they were quick to shout "Lee stuff is junk!"

[Soundguy]

I read it, it seems you think lee has never ever had a failing of any kind and anyone calling something out is a basher.

Every color has a problem occasionally.

I'm not exclusive to any color, my reload and casting area has just about everything represented.

[omgb]

What I said was that the shell holder was a sloppy, imprecise fit. The case is so loosely held that it wobbles and enters the seating die cocked. What I learned here is that this is not a QC issue but an actual design philosophy. I don't share it so I'm getting another shell holder and will most likely never use the Lee holders again. I'm not bashing Lee; I'm rejecting their design concept....one size does not in my book, fit all.

[Taterhead]

What I said was that the shell holder was a sloppy, imprecise fit. The case is so loosely held that it wobbles and enters the seating die cocked. What I learned here is that this is not a QC issue but an actual design philosophy. I don't share it so I'm getting another shell holder and will most likely never use the Lee holders again. I'm not bashing Lee; I'm rejecting their design concept....one size does not in my book, fit all.

You have precisely described my point of view. Shell holders are so inexpensive, why not just get a properly-dimensioned holder when adding a new caliber? $8 over a lifetime of loading is insignificant.

[mdi]

Dp...

[mdi]

No, Lee, just like any manufacturer has it's shortcomings, but not so much as the amount of criticism they receive. If you'd read my post you'd see I wasn't talking about the OP, who is having problems with a sloppy shell holder, and stated as such. I was reacting to the "change the name of the thread" post and the reply when I did so. I didn't mean to open a bag of stuff, nor hijack the thread, I just get tired of people, many inept, mechanically challenged loud mouths dumping on Lee products. No I don't have stock in Lee, yes I too have a multicolored bench. If all the bashers concentrated on the higher priced tools, then there would be more of this childish action brought to light.

This is an old, tired subject, so I'm outta here...

[dragon813gt]

Lee shell holders are a sort or one size fits all approach. This is common knowledge and they don't hide this fact. The information is right on their website. If you want a shell holder for the exact cartridge you're reloading then you need to buy another brand. It's that simple.

[Soundguy]

This is an old, tired subject, so I'm outta here...

You brought it up. Bye.

[gundownunder]

If you buy a multi purpose tool you can't expect it to fit all things perfectly, but it should fit all things reasonably well. When I use my Lee shell holders I find myself having to hold the case up straight with a finger so I don't bust the case mouth up on the side of the die.
I'm still using the Lee holders because I got them in a press kit, when I replace them it will be with a precision tool. Unfortunately I have come up with a number of tools from Lee where the precision part of the name "Lee Precision" is in name only. Of course if you are reloading multiple calibers with one shell holder YMMV.

As to the comment that we are Lee Haters, no we are not.
We probably hate anything that will not work as advertised, or that needs to have the manufacturing process completed when we get the item home, or that requires us to go to the trouble, time, and expense of calling the manufacturer and arranging to post the item back to them and then waiting for them to replace it.

[44magLeo]

In a perfect press, the bore for the ram and the die will be in perfect alignment. The dies will be bore centered to the threads. Shell holder centered on the ram.
All these parts will have just enough clearance to function without excessive effort.
Most manufactures can't sell tooling made to those specs, it cost more than people will pay. Most have specs that are a compromise between cost to make and a price point they can sell the tooling at.
A manufacturer makes their tooling to one set of specs. This ensures all his dies and shell holders work in their presses. All do the same. This doesn't mean they all use the same specs.
Lets say you have a press the threads are not exactly aligned with the ram, a bit tilted or off center. Not to unusual. You buy a very precise shell holder, it holds the case firmly in place. When you resize a case the neck will be off center or tilted because the shell holder won't allow the case to move and align with the die.
You use a shell holder with a bit of play and you resize a case and this play allows the case to move and better align with the die.
Lee knows this fact and tries to make things that can work well with all manufactures tools. Perhaps some of their tooling does have more play than other manufactures tooling.
Precision costs money. Excessive precision wastes money. Lee minimizes this waste of precision.
This lets them sell tooling that doe the job but saves money.
If you want pretty stuff, buy pretty stuff.
As others I have had many colors of tooling on my bench. For most of my needs Lee red works.
I don't think the posters on this thread were Lee bashing, jut pointing out a problem they had. I didn't here anyone say all Lee stuff is junk.
Leo

[jetinteriorguy]

Weird things can happen with any companies equipment. I have Lyman, RCBS, and Lee shell holders in various sizes. I was having a line getting pushed into one side of the base right where the carbide sizing ring ends on my .357 brass. At first I thought it was the Lee sizing die so I tried my Lyman die, same results. This was using an RCBS shell holder. So I tried a Lee shell holder, sure as heck that took care of the problem with either die, in fact I resized all the cases that had been messed up with the RCBS shell holder and it removed the line just like that. I'd been using this RCBS shell holder for years with no issue until now. Goes to show, you never know what can happen for no apparent reason whatsoever.

[Grmps]

If you have any problem with any Lee product, just call Peter at Lee (phone (262) 673-3075) and he will either figure it out with you on the phone or have you send it in to be repaired or replaced.
All manufacturers have produced faulty products (in my humble opinion Lyman has gone rapidly down hill in quality and customer service).
I think the reason Lee get slammed the most is they have an economical (I didn't say cheap) product. I would dare to say that most casters/reloaders started with some if not all lee product and many still use them (my hand is up)

[EDG]

You need a little thicker skin. Lee has to live in the market place like everyone else. Most of the people that beat up Lee's stuff were reloading long before Lee started making 7/8-14" dies.
So in general those people know more about reloading that the average Lee customer who knows little about what existed pre-Lee and who buy mostly based on cheap cheap cheap.

I also buy cheap. Almost 100% of what I buy is near new but used and very little of my "high priced tools" cost any more than what Lee sells.
So I really do concentrate on high prices brands.

No, Lee, just like any manufacturer has it's shortcomings, but not so much as the amount of criticism they receive. If you'd read my post you'd see I wasn't talking about the OP, who is having problems with a sloppy shell holder, and stated as such. I was reacting to the "change the name of the thread" post and the reply when I did so. I didn't mean to open a bag of stuff, nor hijack the thread, I just get tired of people, many inept, mechanically challenged loud mouths dumping on Lee products. No I don't have stock in Lee, yes I too have a multicolored bench. If all the bashers concentrated on the higher priced tools, then there would be more of this childish action brought to light.

This is an old, tired subject, so I'm outta here...

[hpdrifter]

If you call them they will make it right.

Well, they might try. I bought a custom order 38-55 case trimmer to my dimensions. I also order their normal 38-55 for 2.085 cases. When they came, the normal or stock trimmer was for a 260. I called them and they said "send it back" and they would replace it. Well, that'd cost almost as much as just buying a new one at a gun shop. So much for their vaunted CS.

[3006guns]

If you want some quality made shell holders try CH4D , they are my favorite.

+1 on this. I have a large quantity of original 7.65 Mauser ammunition and purchased Berdan primers with the idea of being able to reload all that quality brass......at least once anyway. To my surprise, an RCBS #3 shell holder was too small. A call to CH4D produced a holder that's a perfect fit, and is labelled for use to avoid mixups.