Min % of tin I should use..

[gareth96]

Casting for 45ACP and 380ACP.. keeping speeds under 900fps.. I use the 45/45/10 lube.

What's the min % of tin I should have in my alloy? I read tin really only helps the flow.. I have a bunch of WW and some lead of unknown origin.. I have maybe 5lbs of tin from Germany that is marked 95%.. Thanks!

[Bzcraig]

Tin is an aid to castability, not a requirement. If your getting good clean edges and fill out don't worry about it. However, anything over 2% is wasted.

[OS OK]

WW's will cover your needs just fine.

[lightman]

Save your tin and start with straight clip on weights. Some even cut their clip on weights up to 50/50 with soft lead. Cast a few and see if you get good fill out. But 2% is a good number.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with others. Technique means more toward casting good bullets then tin does. I can get perfect fill out with pure lead. For what your doing your wasting money adding tin to ww.

[dragon813gt]

If they aren't filling out then add 2% max. But I would try casting w/ the alloy first. Tin does quite a bit if it's in balance w/ Antimony. If you haven't read "From Ingot to Target" you should: http://www.lasc.us/fryxell_book_contents.htm

[GhostHawk]

I have some lino that I bought as ingots. When it arrived I emptied my pot, melted down 2 bars, poured them up as .430 310 gr bullets, except being mostly tin they are light.

Anytime I am casting and want a really good clean bullet I reach down and grab one of those and drop it into the pot. A little goes a long long ways.

But I have to admit I mostly use mine on rifle. The pistol is easy, as long as the bullet is big enough range scrap or WW will do.

[OS OK]

WW's will cover your needs just fine.

Attachment 194780
WHEEL WEIGHTS..."It's tough work makin these dang thangs...keep yourself hydrated!"

[farmerjim]

Back when COWW were 5 cents a pound, and tin was $5.00 a pound, I used 0% tin and it worked just fine.

[gareth96]

Thanks all!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

gareth,

The many comments that indicate you'd be wise to save your bucks and not worry about the tin are correct.

According to the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook, clip on wheel weights have a nominal .5% of tin.

Millions up on millions of good bullets have been cast and shot with this alloy.

For my 45/70 with a 465gr Wide Flat Nose cast, I am using a 50/50 alloy or WW/lead and even at this low percentage of tin the bullets cast fine and are VERY deadly on deer and elk.

Using this gas checked bullet, my current go to velocity is about 1650fps, but I have tested as high as into the 1900fps range with NO problems.

I you want really shinny bullets, tin can provide that, but it also changes your as cast bullet dia. if used in overly large amounts.

So save your bucks and use tin in small amounts.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Larry Gibson]

Casting for 45ACP and 380ACP.. keeping speeds under 900fps.. I use the 45/45/10 lube.

What's the min % of tin I should have in my alloy? I read tin really only helps the flow.. I have a bunch of WW and some lead of unknown origin.. I have maybe 5lbs of tin from Germany that is marked 95%.. Thanks!

A lot is going to depend on what quality of bullets do you need for your 45 ACP. A lot of pretty poorly cast bullets shoot just fine for blastin or IDPA/IPSC practice out to 25 yards. However, if you're bullseye competing then then they won't cut it at 25 let alone 50 yards.

Tin in a binary or ternary alloy does a lot more than just help "flow" or fillout. The tin combines with the antimony forming the sub metal SbSn which goes into solution much better in lead than either metal by itself. It also hardens the alloy better. Todays COWWs have very little to no tin in them. You'll be lucky to find any with .05% tin in them. Most COWWs today also have less antimony in them.....todays usually have 2 - 2.5% antimony.

Yes you can cast some okay and even pretty good bullets with todays COWWs if you get a lucky combination of lead, antimony and a little tin in them. Only you can find out by casting. If the quality of your bullets isn't what you want or you're getting a large amount of rejects due to incomplete fill out or wrinkles then your alloy is probably tin deficient. If you want better then add 1% tin, flux really well and cast again. If the bullets cast better you're in business. If not then add another 1.2% tin, flux really well and cast again. I have added up to 2 1/2% tin to some batches of todays COWWs to get the quality of bullets I want. What you want to achieve is a balance of tin to antimony in the ternary alloy. Since you don't really know what the % of antimony is in your COWWs you find the "balance" by testing as mentioned.

I do not consider adding tin to COWWs as "a waste". If it gives me the quality of bullets I want for more accurate shooting and far less frustration/aggravation casting because of a lot less rejects then I gladly add the tin.

Again, whether or not to add tin to your COWW alloy just depends on the quality of bullet you want or need for your type of shooting.

Larry Gibson

[Drm50]

I have cast bullets since I was a kid. I guess hundreds of thousands. 99% for handgun target loads and the others for old rifles of BP days. I'm not near as technical as many here on the
forum. But I learned early on that you have to be able to reproduce your alloy to maintain any
kind of uniformity in your bullets. My recipe for WCs in 38-44-45 has been 5:4:1. in 20lb batches.
10lbs lead: 8lbs WWs : 2lbs Tin. This has poured me bullets with fine square edges, very few
rejects, and a shiney slug. More importantly no leading, these loads are in the 750-950 Fps
range for target. Use this mix on the 250RnFp original 45Colt bullet also.

I was operating on free metal for a lot of years. My tin source is now gone. I do have a good bit
but will be a little tighter with it from now on. I didn't realize over 2% is a waste, my metal is
10% tin. I am going to cut down to 5% and see what that does. I was always under the impression that Tin tuffens the lead, besides helping the pour.

[Josh Smith]

For .45acp loads I really care about, I crank the temp all the way up and cast pure lead.

I used to put a pinch of pure tin in the mix, but found it unnecessary.

I want my boolits to form as much as they're capable.

Range loads get scrap lead, though, with largely unknown mixes. I try to base tin content on these at the point they frost.

Regards,

Josh

[gareth96]

Thanks again to all..

Josh, what do you mean by 45 loads you care about? Accuracy loads? What do you coat these with for lube?

For .45acp loads I really care about, I crank the temp all the way up and cast pure lead.

I used to put a pinch of pure tin in the mix, but found it unnecessary.

I want my boolits to form as much as they're capable.

Range loads get scrap lead, though, with largely unknown mixes. I try to base tin content on these at the point they frost.

Regards,

Josh

[rosewood]

I have only been casting about 3 years now and I use the Lee 130 grain .284 mold with gas check in my 7mm-08 and 7mm TCU. I use straight clip on wheel weights. In the 7mm-08, my load is 2150 FPS I believe. No leading and is deadly on white tails and hogs. So far, I haven't experienced no leading with the gas checked molds.

Rosewood

[jmort]

I use a balanced alloy up to Lyman #2 5/5
I like a balanced alloy
94/3/3 is my favorite

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

------"I try to base tin content on these at the point they frost." ???

Josh, what am I not understanding here? "frosting" is typically a factor of things being overly hot and not caused by the addition of tin. Tin may be ?? a factor in the point/temperature at which frosting occurs, I can't say, but whenever I begin to see frosted bullets, it is an indication that the alloy, mold or both are overly hot.

Also, frosted bullets are typically slightly smaller in dia. then the non-frosted bullets from the same mold.

Rosewood, Leading has a lot to do with bullet to bore fit, so you must be pretty close. I tested cast and gas checked bullets in my RUGER 45/70 up to a touch over 2500fps with nothing more then light lead streaks behind the muzzle. Such light/slight streaking which DOES NOT build up, I consider to be a non-issue.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Josh Smith]

Thanks again to all..

Josh, what do you mean by 45 loads you care about? Accuracy loads? What do you coat these with for lube?

Hello,

Accuracy loads, and loads that could possibly be used on critters.

I pan lube with a beeswax and lanolin mix with enough canola oil added to make it soft to my preference.

I am rediscovering tumble lubing too, and am moving that way on all my loads for simplicity. (Early on, I was "powder coating" before it was cool, using a copper spray to carry graphite powder. It worked but was far too complicated for volume shooting. Polished my barrel though!)

Recently, I've found boolits I cast some years ago with white powder on them. This is one reason I'm moving back to tumble lube: Lead oxide is readily absorbed by the body and I don't want to deal with it. Coating the boolits with Alox should keep it from forming and lube well enough for pistol barrels.

I'm looking at casting for rifles, and while those will have to be greased in the traditional manner, they'll still get a coat of Alox for storage.

Regards,

Josh

[Josh Smith]

------"I try to base tin content on these at the point they frost." ???

Josh, what am I not understanding here? "frosting" is typically a factor of things being overly hot and not caused by the addition of tin. Tin may be ?? a factor in the point/temperature at which frosting occurs, I can't say, but whenever I begin to see frosted bullets, it is an indication that the alloy, mold or both are overly hot.

Also, frosted bullets are typically slightly smaller in dia. then the non-frosted bullets from the same mold.

Rosewood, Leading has a lot to do with bullet to bore fit, so you must be pretty close. I tested cast and gas checked bullets in my RUGER 45/70 up to a touch over 2500fps with nothing more then light lead streaks behind the muzzle. Such light/slight streaking which DOES NOT build up, I consider to be a non-issue.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Hello,

With pure lead, I can turn my furnace up as high as it will go, get the mold very hot to the point it takes 30 seconds before I can cut the sprue without smearing, and it still won't frost.

I add a little tin and it frosts.

I am sure that, if I were able to make it even hotter, I could get pure lead to frost. But not using this equipment - I've tried!

Regards,

Josh

Edited to add: I like frosting when using tumble lube. The increased surface area holds more lube and probably helps it stick. While it may cast smaller -- and this isn't always the case -- it's still plenty big enough to size to uniform diameter. JS