Cherry's Pedersoli Super Match Rolling Block which bullet mould?

[Whelen2]

I'm new to this and need somebody to take me by the hand. I bought the Pedersoli Super Match Rolling Block about ten years ago and have only shot about ten rounds through it. According to the proof marks it's a 1996 rifle and in tip-top shape. The guy I bought it from said it was only shot a few times by him before he had to just have a Sharps. It came with the cheap Pedersoli 1000yds/1200yds sight, but the gentleman included much better made Pedersoli's midrange sight also. When I shot it I loaded some rounds with black powder under a 535gn Postell and some with a 300gn jacketed SP Rem. over IMR3031. Both loads went boom and were pretty accurate at 100yds. That was right after I got it ten years ago and I haven't shot it since then. Now I'm creeping up in years and I'm thinning out my rifles and handguns, but this is one I want to keep. Now for the question..................what long range (500yds+) bullet mold should I get. I thought about the Lee 500gn mold since it's cheap and would allow me to get my feet wet. I can always move up to a better mold after that if need be. Also, I will be shooting "NO" competition with this rifle and want it for my own pleasure. I am just a little fanatical about accuracy so I plan to experiment with load and bullet, but for now I just want to get started. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Especially in the mold department.

[country gent]

There are several to try. With Lyman I would recommend the 457125 510 grn govt round nose. This bullet when it "fits the barrel is a very good performer. Next is the Lyman 535 postell bullet that performs well for a lot of shooters. I have had good results witjh the postel in my pedersoli sharps. The rcbs 500 grn round nose may be good also. I also use a 550 grn shilouette bullet from Old west Moulds by Bernie Roweles. ANother recommendation is to get on want to buy and buy 25-50 of these bullets to test before buying the mould.

[Whelen2]

The buying of 25-50 sounds like the smart thing to do. The Postells I used ten years ago came from a fellow at a gun show I attended. Where and who is a good retailer that has a good selection to try. I still might just get the Lee #90577 mold to try since it will only set me back $25.00 handle and all. Might be a good mold for my grandsons to play with.

There are several to try. With Lyman I would recommend the 457125 510 grn govt round nose. This bullet when it "fits the barrel is a very good performer. Next is the Lyman 535 postell bullet that performs well for a lot of shooters. I have had good results witjh the postel in my pedersoli sharps. The rcbs 500 grn round nose may be good also. I also use a 550 grn shilouette bullet from Old west Moulds by Bernie Roweles. ANother recommendation is to get on want to buy and buy 25-50 of these bullets to test before buying the mould.

[rfd]

i've had Many pedersoli rollers, and still have and shoot a .45-70 "adobe walls" with lee shaver super grade sights. these are, imho, the best commercial rollers currently available for serious target work.

if you want to be even slightly serious about using yer roller for short (200yds) to long distance (1000yds) target work, do not waste any time or money with the lee moulds. above all, get a GOOD mould. at the very least, you will want the lyman postel mould. for one of the very best long range bullets, you want a BACO money bullet mould, such as the jm459525m3 that i just sold (i only load and shoot ppb's these dayze, no greasers). GOOD moulds are pleasure to use. and if you stick with attempting to get yer gun to shoot well, not-so-good moulds will force you to spend more money on at least a DECENT mould (enter the lyman postel). enjoy your learning curve and good luck!

[Whelen2]

rfd, thanks for the advice. Funny you should reply since I was just searching your posts. I saw in an earlier post of yours that you had used Lee molds and that you were going to test the 500gn Lee bullet out to 1000yrds. I was searching to see if you ever did or not. I'll probably end up going with the Lyman Postell or the ####125 mold. As to the learning curve? That's always the fun part for me. I like the fine-tuning to get what I'm after, but I do understand that with all rifles there is only so much you can do and some are just better than others. I'm a fast learner as far as equipment, but slow learner as far as money. I do believe one of the reasons the fellow sold the rifle was the trigger pull on that Pedersoli RR was in the 9 1/2lb. bracket. I had it checked with my friends trigger pull scale and it's break was also not consistent. I figured since I was going to start shooting this thing it would need some trigger work. I installed a homemade trigger return spring and got it down to eight and 1/2lbs, but that was all. I then did some super-fine Arkansas stone work and Brownells two part Action Magic(love that stuff). It now breaks like a glass rod at just under 2lbs. I don't care how good you can shoot 9 1/2lbs. was just a bit much. I have all summer to play with this and it should be fun. Oh, one other question. My sights won't fold flat enough for using the cleaning rod from the rear. How would you swab the bore if not from the rear?

i've had Many pedersoli rollers, and still have and shoot a .45-70 "adobe walls" with lee shaver super grade sights. these are, imho, the best commercial rollers currently available for serious target work.

if you want to be even slightly serious about using yer roller for short (200yds) to long distance (1000yds) target work, do not waste any time or money with the lee moulds. above all, get a GOOD mould. at the very least, you will want the lyman postel mould. for one of the very best long range bullets, you want a BACO money bullet mould, such as the jm459525m3 that i just sold (i only load and shoot ppb's these dayze, no greasers). GOOD moulds are pleasure to use. and if you stick with attempting to get yer gun to shoot well, not-so-good moulds will force you to spend more money on at least a DECENT mould (enter the lyman postel). enjoy your learning curve and good luck!

[rfd]

the lee 459500-3r bullet worked just barely ok at 200 yards but was a dud for me at 300 yards. trust me, the cheapest yer gonna go for a decent long range bullet is the lyman postel. i cast mine with 1:30 and dip lubed with gato feo, great stuff (heck, i use gato feo to lube all my ml ball patch strips). get a postel and don't look back. you can always flip it, it's a very popular mould.

under 2lbs for a single trigger will be more than fine!

if yer shooting greasers, i would recommend using a blow tube for fouling control and forget wiping. for after shoot cleaning, and because a long rod won't work for ya at the breech, i'd use a patchworm button thru the breech (i'd never ever clean from the muzzle on a breech loader). you can buy a .45 patchworm button for a buck and then use about 4' of weed whacker line to thread on the button and then thread a cleaning patch. http://www.patchworm.com/accessories.html

[rfd]

fwiw ... for plinking fun, or light loads for kids 'n' newbies, i use the lee 457340 mould, 1:30 alloy, dip lubed, loaded over 13 grains of trail boss. i loaded up a few dozen for a friend and he had a good 4" 2moa group @ 200yds using my current pedi 'adobe walls' roller.

[Whelen2]

Well, I'm abandoning the Lee mold after hearing that and will just get the Lyman Postell from the get go. What is "gato feo"? Not up on the jargon yet so fill me in. I plan on the blow tube and have one made up. Never used a patchworm, but it sure sounds better than cleaning from the muzzle end. I'll order my patchworm and mold this weekend. Thanks!

the lee 459500-3r bullet worked just barely ok at 200 yards but was a dud for me at 300 yards. trust me, the cheapest yer gonna go for a decent long range bullet is the lyman postel. i cast mine with 1:30 and dip lubed with gato feo, great stuff (heck, i use gato feo to lube all my ml ball patch strips). get a postel and don't look back. you can always flip it, it's a very popular mould.

under 2lbs for a single trigger will be more than fine!

if yer shooting greasers, i would recommend using a blow tube for fouling control and forget wiping. for after shoot cleaning, and because a long rod won't work for ya at the breech, i'd use a patchworm button thru the breech (i'd never ever clean from the muzzle on a breech loader). you can buy a .45 patchworm button for a buck and then use about 4' of weed whacker line to thread on the button and then thread a cleaning patch. http://www.patchworm.com/accessories.html

[rfd]

you'll be set to go with the postel, good.

don't bother buying or making a blow tube. just go to most any hardware store and get a foot length of 7/16" neoprene tubing, that's all you'll need for a blow tube, nothing else but that tubing.

the patchworm works quite well, i one for my revolvers.

'gato feo' ('ugly cat') is a bpcr bullet lube that's been around a long time and easy enuf to make ...

GATO FEO LUBE
*************

by weight, double boiler melted ...

1 part mutton tallow (dixie gun works)
1 part paraffin canning wax (gulf)
1/2 part filtered beeswax

"but isn't paraffin canning wax a petroleum product"?

a chemist provided what seems a plausible answer:
PURE canning paraffin lacks the hydrocarbons found in other petroleum products.
apparently, these hydrocarbons are the offenders with black powder guns.

there's lubrasizer lubing, pan lubing and dip lubing - dip lubing is the easiest and fastest, what i prefer.

[Whelen2]

Thanks rfd, that's a plateful for now. I'll probably have more questions after I get my mold. I cast for my front stuffers, but never have for a breechloader.

you'll be set to go with the postel, good.

don't bother buying or making a blow tube. just go to most any hardware store and get a foot length of 7/16" neoprene tubing, that's all you'll need for a blow tube, nothing else but that tubing.

the patchworm works quite well, i one for my revolvers.

'gato feo' ('ugly cat') is a bpcr bullet lube that's been around a long time and easy enuf to make ...

GATO FEO LUBE
*************

by weight, double boiler melted ...

1 part mutton tallow (dixie gun works)
1 part paraffin canning wax (gulf)
1/2 part filtered beeswax

"but isn't paraffin canning wax a petroleum product"?

a chemist provided what seems a plausible answer:
PURE canning paraffin lacks the hydrocarbons found in other petroleum products.
apparently, these hydrocarbons are the offenders with black powder guns.

there's lubrasizer lubing, pan lubing and dip lubing - dip lubing is the easiest and fastest, what i prefer.

[pjames32]

RFD was a godsend or me when I started with my rolling block. Follow his guidelines!

[Whelen2]

That's why I'm here and I'm glad he's here. I'm sure I could get things figured out, but it's nice that somebody else has already taken the pain so I don't have to suffer. Besides, I learned a long time ago that the only "dumb question is the one that you were to proud to ask". I just wish I had learned that a little sooner, but I was young and foolish. Now I'm older and wiser. Well, kinda wiser anyway.[

RFD was a godsend or me when I started with my rolling block. Follow his guidelines!

[Bigslug]

The Postell can be had from several manufacturers in several diameters - Buffalo Arms and NOE coming to mind. Pound-cast your chamber and find out what size it wants. Order your mold to drop between .001-.002" over that with your desired alloy and size at +.001", so your "sizing" is more just for lube application.

Think of the Postell as a REALLY BIG .22LR match bullet: you start it out subsonic, and it stays subsonic, giving a very stable flight path without any of the trans-sonic issues that can be seen with some of the smaller, jacketed match bullets. Short of a custom-cut-for-your-chamber mold, it'd be my choice based on what I've seen at shorter distances.

[Whelen2]

Thanks Bigslug! I have cerrosafe and have done chamber cast in a couple of custom rifles I built so I will make a cast of the rollers chamber and see what I have. I think the Postell design is going to be my first mold and maybe, if it shoots, my last mold. I just bought a Ashcroft 200-1000 degree thermometer since I never had one or used one for my other bullet casting. I don't want this to become a lot of work and like I said, I will never shoot competition, but would like to be able to hit Quigley's pail at 500yds on a regular bases. Not offhand of course since they only do that in movies. Ha! Ha!

The Postell can be had from several manufacturers in several diameters - Buffalo Arms and NOE coming to mind. Pound-cast your chamber and find out what size it wants. Order your mold to drop between .001-.002" over that with your desired alloy and size at +.001", so your "sizing" is more just for lube application.

Think of the Postell as a REALLY BIG .22LR match bullet: you start it out subsonic, and it stays subsonic, giving a very stable flight path without any of the trans-sonic issues that can be seen with some of the smaller, jacketed match bullets. Short of a custom-cut-for-your-chamber mold, it'd be my choice based on what I've seen at shorter distances.

[John Boy]

The Brooks 45 caliber mold based on the Paul Jones Creedmoor bullet ... http://brooksmoulds.com/basepour.html
Slug the bore of your rifle 1st - pick the Brooks mold that is 0.003 over groove diameter and the weight you want, ie. 535gr and the alloy you want to use - suggestion 1:16

I shoot the Creedmoor bullet from the original Paul Jones mold in 1:16 to 1000yds and have no complaints about the bullet's accuracy. On a good day once, I had 7 center hits out of 10 shots at 1000yds using a Pedersoli 74 Sharps which has the same made barrel bore as the Rolling Block
IMO, the Creedmoor design is 1st place and the Postell comes in 2nd or 3rd depending how you want to seat the bullet

[Whelen2]

John Boy,
Thanks for the information about the Paul Jones Creedmoor bullet and mold. I had looked into the mold on Steve's site before. If I were going to shoot competition or get real serious I'd probably go that route, but that bullet would probably be wasted on me since my 67 year old eye aren't worth wasting $190.00 on. I'll probably go with the $100.00 dollar Postell. Now, if I could get my eagle-eyed grandson interest in long range BP shooting the Paul Jones Creedmoor would certainly be considered. I'm going to cast the chamber and the muzzle end of my bore tomorrow. I also think I'm going to order a few per-cast bullets to try before I decide on a mold. The furthest I can shoot near home is close to 400yds. Do you think that 300-350yds is enough for me to tell which bullets might work out, to say, 800yds? Oh, and 7 center hits out of 50 shots would probably be good for me.

The Brooks 45 caliber mold based on the Paul Jones Creedmoor bullet ... http://brooksmoulds.com/basepour.html
Slug the bore of your rifle 1st - pick the Brooks mold that is 0.003 over groove diameter and the weight you want, ie. 535gr and the alloy you want to use - suggestion 1:16

I shoot the Creedmoor bullet from the original Paul Jones mold in 1:16 to 1000yds and have no complaints about the bullet's accuracy. On a good day once, I had 7 center hits out of 10 shots at 1000yds using a Pedersoli 74 Sharps which has the same made barrel bore as the Rolling Block
IMO, the Creedmoor design is 1st place and the Postell comes in 2nd or 3rd depending how you want to seat the bullet

[Whelen2]

Did my chamber cast and notice there is something strange? No throat and what looks like no lead in my Pedersoli chamber. Is this the way all Pedersoli barrels are made? According to my proof letters (BH) the gun was proofed in 1996, but I don't know if that's right or not. Did early Pedersoli 45-70 barrels have different chamber specs than the new ones? Anyway my measurements, to the best of my ability, are.............Muzzle end is .4573 and .450............on the chamber end .4584 and .4505.

[EDG]

Your BH date code for 1996 is correct. I have a Pedersoli Sharps date code BI for 1997.

It seems that your chamber casts might be pretty accurate since Pedersoli goes out of their way to make the muzzle section of the bore a little tighter than the breech.


You can check out the SAAMI chamber drawing for the 45-70 and you will find that your rifle has the standard SAAMI chamber.
http://members.saami.org/ManualsStds...Government.pdf

I have owned 11 45-70s at one time or another and they all had that same chamber. That includes Browning, Ruger, TC Encore and Pedersoli.
The only 45-70 with a different chamber that I have seen was a 4 digit Shiloh Sharps from Farmingdale. It looked like it had about 9/16" of free bore ahead of the case mouth. That is definitely an undesirable condition for me. I would have bought the Shiloh if not for the free bore.