having 9mm glock issues had an idea

[Drew P]

Troubled glock needs help. I purchased new gun few months ago, put a mag or two of store bought fmj through and then got to casting. Started HItek coating at same time. Having bad leading and trying to find the issue. I've gone through a lot of the typical sticking points on 9mm loading with slugging, expanding, etc all covered. But one thing I'm wondering is the throat of the chamber, where the sharp edge exists. Is it possible that such a new gun has too sharp edge from never getting smoothed by fmj? I feel like maybe it's scraping off my coating as it enters barrel or something.

[Forrest r]

Take the glock to the range with a couple mags full of your pc'd reloads. Shoot 2 rounds and eject a round/shoot 2 rounds & eject a round. Keep doing that for 2 full mags, then inspect the ejected rounds for scraping.

I have yet to get any leading in any firearm when using pc'd bullets. I'm talking 20+ firearms in several different calibers using 30+ different cast bullets.

500+ rounds of pc'd bullets down the tube of a 9mm, this is what the bbl looked like.
[IMG][/IMG]

1 wet patch of hoppe's #9 and 1 dry patch later the bbl is clean. No brushes, no mops, nothing but 2 cotton patches.
[IMG][/IMG]

I have no idea how you setup your bullets for your bbl. I typically use this method.
[IMG][/IMG]

Myself I like to set the oal's up so they look like the (OK Normal headspace). Most people see the "Best accuracy" and set their oal's so the case is flush with the hood. Between the differences in the thickness of the pc coating (changes where the bullets nose contacts the the leade of the bbl) and the differences in the oal's in the reloading process itself. Setting the oal just below flush takes all those differences out of play.

While the oal's aren't setup for "Max accuracy", there's also no bullet scraping, nose deforming or mis-alignment of the bullet/bbl going on or leading issues either. Consistency in the name of the game, not a hand picked cherry target by any means. This is the actual test target I used to test loads in that 1911/9mm pictured above. A 10-shot group @ 50ft.
[IMG][/IMG]

The factory throat in the 1911/9mm bbl.
[IMG][/IMG]

You might want to pull a couple bullets and measure them to see if they are getting swaged down in the reloading process. A picture of a lyman m-die.
[IMG][/IMG]

Myself I use .358" bullets anymore in the 9mm's for no other reason than I can use the same bullets in the 9mm/38spl/357 this way. I use nothing more than an el-cheapo set of lee 9mm dies to reload the 9mm's. The lee expander plug is designed to be used with the shorter/smaller in diameter jacketed bullets and does an excellent job with them. But it is a poor choice for the longer/larger lead bullets. A factory expander plug next to a custom plug I made to reload the 9mm's.
[IMG][/IMG]

If you're getting leading from pc'd bullets you have some how mechanically broke thru/scrapped the coating off of the bullets. I've shot pc'd bullets in a 308 with 50,000+psi loads and had no leading issues. Those 35,000+psi 9mm loads should be a walk in the park.

[Wayne Smith]

Drew, if you have a sharp edged throat contact DougGuy. He will fix you up.

[44man]

Isn't Glock rifling different then a 1911? I don't know, have neither but friends shoot cast from 1911's all the time.

[Spector]

Why not carefully load single rounds into the chamber. That should tell you if feeding from the magazine is causing any scraping. If you find no leading then you are on the right track in your thinking.

Mike

[HATCH]

your not having any issues with feeding, firing, or extracting correct?
Sounds like your problem is with leading at the throat of the barrel.

What is your lead hardness (your mix?)
What power/load are you using
What weight bullet?

[Drew P]

Thanks for the replies! It's apparent that I havent provided nearly enough info for you to help. Here goes with more details:

-barrel is glock "polygonal" yes it's a glock thing not like 1911 or even like other polygon barrels.
-Barrel mirror clean between tests
-slugged .3565" (quality calipers, not mic)
-hitek coated 3 thin coats, baked 15 minutes @ 400°
-mihec 135gr HP no lube grooves
-95/4/1 lead alloy approximately.
-custom lee push through sizer opened to .3575
-Custom Hornady PTX lengthened and stepped like M die, prevents swaging
-loaded 3.2gr red dot
-mixed range brass
-100% functioning well
-Dillon die set

what I'm trying now is aging the bullets for two weeks to make sure properly aged, plus increasing load to 3.4gr possibly. I like softer shooting loads but it seems most people use a lot closer to 4.0 red dot. What I'm wondering about on lead alloy is why would it matter with the coating? In my experience with PC softer is okay because the coating keeps everything separated well. But I'm new to hitek and have been PC up till this gun. I'm also going to re slug the barrel and dig out the mic to measure.

[reddog81]

Why 3 coats of hitek? I've never used it but 3 coats seems odd. I'd try some powder coated bullets and see if the problem is still there.

[Drew P]

They say 2 coats is the minimum and that thinner coats are better, like thinnest possible, so I tried that and added an aluminum xtra coat.

[gsdelong]

I shoot pc in glock 9mm,40,10mm and 45 with out any problem. My first guess is it is too thick/or oversized boolit and not well bonded and the coating is being peeled or striped off, I would think to get the leading you describe it has no coating by the end of the barrel.

My first step would be a hundred or more rounds of fmj down the barrel to elimate the sharp edge theory.

[Walkingwolf]

Have you done a hammer test yet on your Hitek bullets? If they are failing the test you are doing something wrong in the process.

I have used Hitek Bayou Bullets in a Glock 22 with absolutely no leading, and the barrel swabs clean, no scrubbing.

[Drew P]

Yes they hammer out just fine.

[sutherpride59]

You could try fire lapping it with a very fine media. A fire lapping kit is never a bad investment and wouldn't hurt the gun even if the throats wasn't the problem, again using the fine media set up to polish the barrel.

[Forrest r]

I wouldn't think it's the alloy I typically cast my pistol bullets with nothing more than range scrap made in 100# batches. The bhn varies from batch to batch & are typically in the 8bhn to 10bhn range with most of it in the 8bhn/9bhn range. + add to that the heating process used to cure the coating heats the bullets enough to anneal the alloy making them softer.

I've shot .356" sized bullets/8bhn/pc'd/p+ loads in a taurus pt111 that bbl sluged out @ .358" and had no tumbling/leading/nada. Just holes in paper.

At the end of the day the only way to get leading with a coated bullet is to break/scratch off the coating.

[TexasGrunt]

Try a larger boolit. +.001 is the minimum for a cast boolit.

[ioon44]

In 9 mm I have the best results with 6-2-92 alloy and 2 coats of Hi-Tek sized to .3575", you just need to keep trying different alloys to see what your gun likes best as not all barrels are the same.

[scattershot]

Just a thought, if you have an inadequate flare on the case mouth you may be scraping the coating off as you seat the bullet.

[sigep1764]

Can we see what one of your finished boolits looks like?

[9mmsteel]

https://youtu.be/iLN5xsZlaaE

[Dusty Bannister]

9mmsteel, I do not know what caliber that pistol is that is shown in the video. But, my 40 cal barrel is not cut in that manner. The "groove" or major diameter appears to have been formed, and then the lands, which appear as inward formed arches, are the result of forging of the barrel. There are no "flats" in the rifling. Perhaps this is caliber specific, or perhaps the method of rifling have changed through time.