Only time my Issue M16A2 ever failed was when shooting "New" ammo at the range for qualifying. The ammo was loaded over pressure and was bulging and rupturing primers. It was also locking the bolt back pretty violently. There were several of us who had issues with the ammo and we had to gather up all the ammo and turn it in. They gave us a new lot of ammo and after the armor looked over our rifles we were allowed to requalify.
M1 Garand..
I collect exotic ammo, if you have something interesting let me know.
Yawn... So let's just kick this dead mule one more time!
I'll see your 7 years and double it and add some - with a FALOriginally Posted by WJP
The tale of Ol' Dirty and 16K+ rounds without cleaning.
Well just a dunk in a mud puddle.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...ighlight=dirty
je suis charlie
It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.
Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
On those mud test video's - there are a few videos comparing the AK with the AR for accuracy. Very little to choose from but it was a quality AK.
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
the M16 of Vietnam started with no cleaning equipment to user, many failures with dirty firearm go figure, the flash supressor was open fingered another bad idea slow twist. Next came the M16A2 closed flash supressor, faster twist, cleaning kit. Then decades later faster twist 1-7 heavier bullet. When I left the Army I swore I would never own a Ar 15 and in the Army I had 75 M16s to care fore. Then a friend let me use his AR15 and what a difference if I were to buy one I would have no problem with the new ones, just wished that the 62 grain round came in 77 grains, but if you hand load that is no big deal.
Ak47 I saw a lot of them that were dumped in canals along with ammo for long periods of time and in the mud many times that still went bang and with corroded ammo no less. Would I buy one nope they were made for simple people to use and of poor quality in my mind from the day I saw my first one way back decades ago. Yes we put on shows for Mom and Dad when they came on post by putting one in sandy water with ammo and just opening the action flushing it out and then firing it with the water spewing out as we fired corroded ammo. Put 5 drops down the muzzle of an M16/AR15 and hope your insurance is paid as I never saw one that didn't come apart very violently. Not saying that this happened to everyone just the ones I saw that we used in training sessions with troops on what not to allow to happen to your weapon.
Beware of a government that fears its citizens having the means to protect themselves.
NRA Patron member
Veteran
...failed miserably in the mud test; wouldn't even fire the first shot.
Every time this debate comes around I have to ask: Soldiers excluded...What the hell are you doing where you get shovel loads of mud in your action? If I can't take reasonable care of my rifle I deserve to have it fail.
When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"
Yeah exactly what you said. The other thing is most people are thinking about shtf scenario. Seriously, you are not going to war. Sneaking around and not getting into a fight is going to be the way to survive. Very different than fighting a battle. Accuracy and stealth will be your friends. If I've got to use my 30 round mags in either my AK or AR I've already messed up.
I was a dog on a short chain.
Now there's no chain.
Jim Harrison
Years ago I used to think that way. Now, I agree with you. The rifle that will do me more service than any of my ARs is my Savage I'm currently building. .358 Winchester Suppressed and I'm going to work up a slew of good loads including a 230g Thor that's nice and quiet. Silent dump truck.
When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"
make mine an ar15. Maybe not in Viet Nam but todays ars are as reliable as an ak. Especially when you factor in the old, wore out, cobbled up parts guns that are most AKs. There also a lot more accurate, flatter shooting, lower recoiling and ammo weights less. Nobody will survive a hit by either in the chest and about anyone will survive a hit in the leg or arm by either. You might have found some soldiers back in the 60s that would have swapped there ars for an ak in a heartbeat but I seriously doubt if youd find many that would throw there ars away and pick up some ak47 sitting on the ground today.
I can't believe they put mud in that Garand.
All this is great and even somewhat entertaining . What really made me giggle was the "expert" (Insert the word moron and it would fit better there) Who told me with a straight face the AK 47 was made so it could use the ammo from the M16 . Yes , they live among us .
Jack
Buy it cheap and stack it deep , you may need it !
Black Rifles Matter
Well, you can. I wouldn't and I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to do so, but in theory (and practice as I've heard) the extractor will hold the rim well enough to punch the primer. Now, where that bullets gonna go, that's anyone's guess!
I've fired a Chinese made AK clone chambered for the 5.56 NATO. A Commercial semi auto rifle. Don't know if any were ever used by a military.
If the clones built using military spec parts are any indication then the AK is not immune from wear and can have poorly heat treated parts. Depends on where the parts came from and when they were made.
Only reason I own an AK is because I inherited it. I'd never buy one. Don't really care for the AR rifles but they are very accurate at medium ranges when there's not a lot of wind. The AR is handier and comes to the shoulder more smoothly.
I don't consider either to be true rifles, they are intermediate powered carbines.
I am not the expert that many here are on the subject. That said, I did 25 months and 10 days in I Corps with MACV-SOG Advisory Teams, and after my brother went home, the Ranger Company assigned to the 23rd Inf in Chu Lai, and the 196th LIB in Danang after that.
No unit commander had us dunk our M-16's in mud, or water before heading out on little jaunts. We cleaned them every day when we laagered up, and we did not have malfunctions. We could choose weapons from the Conex, but nobody I worked with took anything but their '16 out. I did pack a Thompson one mission, I just had to see what it was like.
I did not ever have an enemy soldier complain about being shot with the M-16 round.
Actually your more of a real world expert on this then 95 percent of the posters here. Funny thing is when the ak vs ar arguments and the 9mm vs 45acp for that matter come up on these fourms its seems its the key board commandos not real commandos that want to bash the 9 and 5.56
The Mk262 round (77 gr OTM) been in service for almost 15 years already. Was my preferred carry ammo over M855 in Iraq from 03' forward. Toss up between M855A1 and Mk262 now. Did win a case of BH Mk262 at the All Army Matches in 05' and have take a few NC whitetails with it.
CD
De Oppresso Liber
Irag: 91,03,04,05,06,08,09',15', 16',22-23'
Afghanistan: 09,10,11',14',17'-21'
I would love to shoot some 77 grain bullets out of a M16/m4 just to see how they preform. Way back in the day all that was available was the 55 grain varmint round. Thanks for posting that heavier rounds are available.
Beware of a government that fears its citizens having the means to protect themselves.
NRA Patron member
Veteran
check your twist rate before ordering 77 grn ammo - Older AR's with less than 1:7 twist won't handle the real heavy bullets.
je suis charlie
It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.
Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
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