30-30 AI dies

[68 couper]

Looking at having a 30-30 contender barrel AI'd by David White. My only concern is the die makers interpretation of Ackley 30-30. I want dies that finish with the .350-.370 length neck for cast. Would someone let me know what the Hornady neck length and case taper is? Maybe the Lee???
Much thanks,
Couper

[claude]

If you have a set of 30-30 dies, have the gunsmith/machinest ream them at the same time. That way your dies and chamber are a perfect match.

[68 couper]

I agree completely. Thus my search to get the dimensions that serve purpose. Here's what I want-

[68 couper]

Here's what I don't-
This cartridge will have much more taper. I called Lee to ask for dimensions and he said it is done to SAMMI specs???
Couper

[claude]

I apparently misinterpreted your question, I have nothing to offer. Hope you're successful.

[Wayne Smith]

Talk to Mr. White. I agree about having him ream a sizer die as he reams the barrel. Or should the die be a couple of thousands smaller?

The other option is simply get a neck size die and don't worry.

[68 couper]

Thanks for the replis fellas- I'm hoping to catch someone's attention who has loaded the AI and could pull a dimension or 2 off their sized case. This will determine what dies I go for.
Thanks,
Couper

[Dryball]

I would take the above suggestion. Ream the dies at same time. That way he can shorten the die too for the headspace

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[gwpercle]

Another option is to send a chamber cast or fired cases to Dave at CH4D and he will make a sizing die to your rifles chamber dimensions. The AI , unless a factory adopted round , will/might vary.
Best option is have a sizer reamed with the barrel with the same reamer....Mr. White shouldn't have a problem doing this....it's a common way to get the correct sizing die.
Gary

[blpenn66502]

I have Hornady 30-30 AI dies and some converted brass that I can check in a couple of days for you.
You do realize that getting full length 30-30 AI out of 30-30 brass isn't probably realistic (2.0395)? You will loose some length in the conversion/fire forming process, likely what the second drawing shows. Using something like. 375 Win or 38-55 might get you the neck length depending on how the chamber throat is cut but regardless, the first fire forming will cause some length loss. How much you can compensate for the length you want will be limited by how the chamber and throat are cut.

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[68 couper]

Gotcha, thanks
Couper

[EDG]

You cannot make a correct FL sizer using a chamber reaming die.

Another option is to send a chamber cast or fired cases to Dave at CH4D and he will make a sizing die to your rifles chamber dimensions. The AI , unless a factory adopted round , will/might vary.
Best option is have a sizer reamed with the barrel with the same reamer....Mr. White shouldn't have a problem doing this....it's a common way to get the correct sizing die.
Gary

[Wayne Smith]

Thanks, EDG. I was wondering that.

[68 couper]

I have Hornady 30-30 Air dies and some converted brass that I can check in a couple of days for you.
You do realize that getting full length 30-30 AI out of 30-30 brass isn't probably realistic (2.0395)? You will loose some length in the conversion/fire forming process, likely what the second drawing shows. Using something like. 375 Win or 38-55 might get you the neck length depending on how the chamber throat is cut but regardless, the first fire forming will cause some length loss. How much you can compensate for the length you want will be limited by how the chamber and throat are cut.

Sent from my D6616 using Tapatalk

That brings up a detail I was wondering about. Do the different fire forming methods effect the initial forming length differently? IE- COW vs jammed with light powder vs normal "factory" type handloads vs hydro form...
Couper

[WALLNUTT]

For what it's worth, I used a 30 Herret neck sizer to neck size a 30 30AI barrel I had. It was cheaper.

[Reverend Al]

If a gunsmith is making a matching set of dies for a custom chambered rifle he normally uses the "roughing" chamber reamer, which is slightly undersized, to make a FL sizing die. The "finishing" reamer is normally used to make a matching seating die ...

You cannot make a correct FL sizer using a chamber reaming die.

[blpenn66502]

Well I'm not sure where the formed brass ended up at, however, just to check I for you I ran a piece of FC 1x fired 30-30 through a 357 Herrett to expand the neck and then through the 30-30 AI Hornady dies. This creates a double shoulder where you can actually headspace on the 30-30 AI shoulder. When fireforming in a contender, the common practice is adjust the dies so the case is fully against the shoulder and the action needs to be snapped closed, but not so much that it prevents it from firing. I use normal loads when fireforming to ensure the cartridge fully fireforms, but that is just me. I have no idea how other forming methods influence OAL.

The OAL started at 2.027" and after running through the die, 1.998", with more loss that is going to occur during fireforming, I'd guess another 0.010" to 0.020", so if you started with a max length parent 30-30 case you'd end up around the 2.000" OAL case length after fireforming.

The Hornady die I used, was set up to just kiss the shellholder without any caming over with the press. The shoulder/neck junction seems to be at about 1.665" - 1.670" as near as I can measure with calipers which would put it pretty close to the what I assume is a quickload drawing and the dimensions you want. Of course theshell holder can also influence where the junction will be as well as if you cam over when sizing.

As I mentioned before, you'd need something like .375 Win cases if you really need max neck length. I'd still expect to loose 0.010" OAL with 375 Win if fireforming. It is likely that the mouth won't be square after fireforming anyway so you'll likely have to trim after fireforming to square the case. SAAMI drawings show the throat starts at 2.083".

http://www.saami.org/specifications_...ex.cfm?page=CC

I'm not sure what advantage you'd get with a max length neck in a contender, the cartridge isn't being pushed up a feed ramp, and as long as the bullet is concentric and aligned in the throat, and additional .040" of neck length I doubt will make a measurable difference (positive or negative) but you've the one that has to decide if any additional cost and/or time is worth it to you.

I suspect that David White can give you a die recommendation or point to you one of his customers that had the conversion done. I'd also suspect that both Hornady and Lee use Ackley's original dimensions/drawings when cutting dies for 30-30 AI so either would probably work fine.

[gwpercle]

You cannot make a correct FL sizer using a chamber reaming die.

Would a Cerrosafe chamber casting sent to CH4D be a viable option to getting dies, or is this service even offered any longer ? I know Dave's been busy.
Gary

[scb]

From http://clymertool.com/wildcat/index.html
Attachment 195008
Trying to cut (or re-cut) a heat treated sizing die will no nothing but ruin a good reamer.

[68 couper]

Thanks for the sholder -neck junction length. I appreciate the sizing you did. What was the body OD before the sholder?
Couper