Redding dies .......

[Harter66]

EDG
"In particular the Redding 45-70 dies have the seating punch that is too long for long bullets and the sizing section of the die is short at about .440 long.
I know because I have both Redding FL and neck die sets in 45-70. "

Based on my example of one I have to disagree on this point . Even in the 45-70 I wouldn't think that a 405 gr bullet is a short light bullet . To reach a feedable OAL for my 1895 for Lyman 458193 , 454613 , Lee 457-340 F , 457-405 HB and a PP 350 the seating stem has a half to 1 thread for the lock nut and avoiding the crimp . Hence the source origin of the post needing either a flat point or a closed radius or just a plain old longer seating stem . Of course I could just screw the die down another turn and gain that length to back out the stem but then I'm back to seating die , crimp sizing the bullet which I really don't want to do.

[Iowa Fox]

Over my reloading career of 57 + years, I have used many makes of dies; Lee, RCBS, Herter's, C&H, Lyman, Bair, Lachmiller, Texan, Bonanza, Hollywood, Forster, Dillon, Redding, and one set that was not marked as to maker. I started out with Lee Loader's and gradually upgraded and bought as finances allowed. I have used no dies that were better made or operated better than Redding. I always like the fact that Redding dies were smoother machined, smoother finished, and threads do not have the slight roughness when threaded into a press that most other dies exhibit. Their customer service has also been as good as anyone's and that includes Dillon or RCBS. I once needed a .45 ACP wad cutter seating stem and called their service rep about buying one, he would not sell me one but sent me one free of charge. I explained to him that the die set had the SWC & RN stems as advertised but I just wanted to buy a WC stem for the occasional times I used a WC bullet. He apologized and said that they wanted me to use my dies the way I needed and they would send me the stem at "no charge". It arrived the next day, sent by overnight mail. You can't beat service like that. My dies are now mostly Green(RCBS & Redding) with some Forster and Bonanza. my experience anyway, james

Well TNsailor you've got me by a couple years, only about 54 or so for me. Every word in your post is mirror image of my experience.

[Harter66]

So I got the new seating stem it should definitely resolve any depth and adjustment issues .
Attachment 195182
The short #5 and the long #36 .
There was no charge , not even postage .
If it turns out that the #36 is too long , by eyeball measure , the base of the hollow is the at same depth as the overall length of the #5 .

I'm pleased with the response from Redding .

[EDG]

Your experience loading the 45-70 is incomplete since you are loading the Marlin which is restricted to lighter bullets and short overall lengths.
The 45-70 was designed for use in single shots which do not really have much of a length restriction. So your 405 bullets really are short by comparison to a 530 grain bullet with a long ballistically efficient nose. See the attached photo

The Redding dies come with the long seating punch #31 for the short bullets. The last 3/8" of threads of this punch are turned off so you cannot back it out and use it for these longer bullets.

The shorter Redding punch is a number 5 and it works really well with the long bullets. You have to call Redding and ask for the shorter punch.

The really long nosed bullet is called a Paul Jones Mini Groove and the "shorter" bullet is a Paul Jones Creedmoor. They are both seated to touch the start of the rifling in my rifle.

EDG
"In particular the Redding 45-70 dies have the seating punch that is too long for long bullets and the sizing section of the die is short at about .440 long.
I know because I have both Redding FL and neck die sets in 45-70. "

Based on my example of one I have to disagree on this point . Even in the 45-70 I wouldn't think that a 405 gr bullet is a short light bullet . To reach a feedable OAL for my 1895 for Lyman 458193 , 454613 , Lee 457-340 F , 457-405 HB and a PP 350 the seating stem has a half to 1 thread for the lock nut and avoiding the crimp . Hence the source origin of the post needing either a flat point or a closed radius or just a plain old longer seating stem . Of course I could just screw the die down another turn and gain that length to back out the stem but then I'm back to seating die , crimp sizing the bullet which I really don't want to do.

[Harter66]

I have the #5 that was in the dies an the #36 recieved from Redding .
When I found the Marlin I was looking for 1 of the several #1 or #3 Rugers I had seen at previous shows . I can't vouch for the OAL it fits the appropriate grooves . This rifle being a nice stable 3" rifle without regard to bullet choice or powder selection a long range "precision" bullet would really be wasted anyway . Maybe I'll trade off the 03A3 and Arisaka , both horribly bubba'd , for an 86' 45-90 rebbl it back to 45-70 and give the Money or the like a go , probably not ............maybe I'll just bbl the Arisaka as a single shot ....... Then I could go to a 446-600 paper patched Creedmoor/Money hybrid then I could just use the 25 mm ball projectile flair tool and not need these silly dies while being able to run it all the way up to tier 3 loads . I could even the 2200 metre ladder sight and treat it as yards x 0.5 .

[EDG]

The 45-70 is several different rifles depending on weight, action type and twist.

The lighter single shots like the Ruger #1 and #3 or H&R will beat you up with the heavy 500 grain bullet. Their one turn in 20 inch rifling will handle the heavy bullets but works ok with lighter weights too. The Marlin is a light rifle so it is primarily a 400 grn and down rifle.

The heavy (12 lb) Browning BPCR, some Rolling Blocks and Sharps have a faster 18" twist. Coupled with the heavy weight the faster twist is best suited for heavy bullets.

The reason for considering almost any bullet in a Marlin a short bullet is the short length of the nose that is permitted to project out of the case. This nose length determines how long the seating punch has to be. The photo above that shows the long nosed mini groove bullet has .980" of bullet nose hanging out of the case. This long nose projection causes the requirement for the short seater plug and it is a feature associated with seating heavy 530 grain bullets out to touch the rifling. Some of the issue is because the elliptical nose projects far up into the rifling.

I once had a Siamese bolt gun that I shot very heavy loads in. The rifle had a 14" twist (458 Win twist) barrel so it did not shoot light cast bullets very well. It was very accurate with 500 gr jacketed bullets but they beat you to death.
The most fun I have had with a 45-70 is with the 500 grn cast bullets at about 1100 to 1200 FPS in a heavy rifle. While the recoil is there is does not kill you and the loads often grouped near 1 inch for 5 shots.

I have the #5 that was in the dies an the #36 recieved from Redding .
When I found the Marlin I was looking for 1 of the several #1 or #3 Rugers I had seen at previous shows . I can't vouch for the OAL it fits the appropriate grooves . This rifle being a nice stable 3" rifle without regard to bullet choice or powder selection a long range "precision" bullet would really be wasted anyway . Maybe I'll trade off the 03A3 and Arisaka , both horribly bubba'd , for an 86' 45-90 rebbl it back to 45-70 and give the Money or the like a go , probably not ............maybe I'll just bbl the Arisaka as a single shot ....... Then I could go to a 446-600 paper patched Creedmoor/Money hybrid then I could just use the 25 mm ball projectile flair tool and not need these silly dies while being able to run it all the way up to tier 3 loads . I could even the 2200 metre ladder sight and treat it as yards x 0.5 .

[Harter66]

I'm leaving the desert wonderland for the southern world of 150 yd is a long shot across clear cut or a power line clearing .
I'm working away from the 300 yd zero high speed , low drag , 150% of minimum energy to 600 yd .

[TNsailorman]

I read somewhere years ago that the Army at some point started loading the 45-70 carbine ammo down using a lighter bullet and maybe a lighter powder charge but I have never seen any of that ammo to verify the information. The reason was supposed to be that the troops that were issued carbines were having accuracy problems(flinching problems) because of the heavy loading of rifle ammo. Whether that information is correct or not I cannot say for sure. james

[EDG]

I have seen broken down 45-70 ammo from that era and it had a common paper tube in the case used to take up the air space.

I read somewhere years ago that the Army at some point started loading the 45-70 carbine ammo down using a lighter bullet and maybe a lighter powder charge but I have never seen any of that ammo to verify the information. The reason was supposed to be that the troops that were issued carbines were having accuracy problems(flinching problems) because of the heavy loading of rifle ammo. Whether that information is correct or not I cannot say for sure. james

[Harter66]

If memory serves as I read it the standard was 45-70-500 and the mounted Cavalry with the lighter rifles were getting beat up and the loading was changed for them to 45-65-405 .
I probably read that from American Rifleman , Rifle , Handloader or G&A.

[white eagle]

Been using Redding dies for more years than I care to admit
never had any failings with them worked superbly
all I own and use

[KenT7021]

I have never seen Chinese made RCBS dies.How can you tell they are made in China?

[Harter66]

I have never seen Chinese made RCBS dies.How can you tell they are made in China?

There was a brief period when RCBS got some raw press castings from an overseas source some of which were substandard .

To my knowledge every die is turned by the Huntington's​ in Oroville CA . The round stock could be sourced anywhere .

[jem102]

Well TNsailor you've got me by a couple years, only about 54 or so for me. Every word in your post is mirror image of my experience.

54 years here as well and I agree with both you and TNsailor. I give Forster a close 2nd as I do prefer their competition seating die over the Redding and one FL Dillon carbide in .223 that works well.