Thinning down Zinc contaminated Pb...?...

[BNE]

OK OK,

I'm now dying of curiosity!?! Just send me the samples!

[6622729]

I agree. That looks like Linotype to me. Maybe even water quenched. I don't think 5% zinc would offer that quality of a surface finish. I'd just cast some air cooled to check fill out, general castability and hardness. I think you're going to be fine. The XRF would be nice but not a must have.

[gpidaho]

I bought 60lbs. of the lead from the same offer. I'm not saying there may not have been a mix-up if the man moves a lot of lead. (maybe mixed up two shipments, lino and wheel weight) but my 60 lbs. casts beautifully, very clean and measured just a tic over 7 Saeco (12bhn) There is for sure NO zinc in my batch. I've contacted the seller and ask to be remembered when more is available. Gp

[OS OK]

OK OK,

I'm now dying of curiosity!?! Just send me the samples!

Hey BNE...I'm getting quite an education here!
Today I'll clean out the pot and make the sample 'coins' you requested and get them in the mail....thank you soooo Much for helping.

While this 'stuff' is in the pot I'll cast some different rounds to see how it reacts with differing molds, ie. Lee, Accurate and Lyman & pistol/rifle profiles...sorry, don't have a brass mould to throw in the mix. This oughta produce an interesting picture or two. I'm anxious to see if they will hammer smash or whether they frag, what they look like too....I should have this together this afternoon.

Bird...I'll bring this 'stuff' up to temp by setting the Lee pot on about 3 so the pot doesn't overshoot 600* F.

articbreeze...Regarding your sulfuring of 'Zinctified Pb'...You used 40 Lbs. in the pot and pulled off 4 lbs. 9 oz's of dross. That is 11.25% Zinc. That's an interesting thread but...I don't want to go the sulfur route for 120 lbs of 'mystryfied Pb' I have. I hope today will tell a story about percentages as I try to bring the temp up slowly and control it and skim off any oatmeal...we'll see.

gpidaho...please don't reveal who the seller is...I've seen threads like this go south with accusations and innuendo then all the fact finding and discovery get left behind and covered up with BS form a 'spitting contest'!

The 12 BHN was the reason I ordered the Pb too...that WW Pb is sorta the go to lead here that I use as a base for blending...of course that's outside of low velocity HP's.

[gpidaho]

I have NO interest in any bickering and as too revealing the seller it probably wouldn't be hard to figure out with out being an Apache tracker. I've nothing but good to say about the man and his product and am hoping I get lucky and my next batch tests 20+. Gp

[OS OK]

I have NO interest in any bickering and as too revealing the seller it probably wouldn't be hard to figure out with out being an Apache tracker. I've nothing but good to say about the man and his product and am hoping I get lucky and my next batch tests 20+. Gp

OK...thanks!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

While this 'stuff' is in the pot I'll cast some different rounds to see how it reacts with differing molds, ie. Lee, Accurate and Lyman & pistol/rifle profiles.

Be sure to use a mold that you know the weight of the boolit it produces with COWW.
Because straight Lino will cast about 6% lighter.
So a 200gr boolit (COWW) will weigh about 188gr. with straight lino.

Also, if you have 2% or more Zinc in that alloy, you will probably have lots of issues with Dross (oatmealing).

[popper]

Like Tataerhead says, get some muriatic acid, Zn will fizz. If it doesn't pour 'stringy' shoot it.

[gwpercle]

I'm betting my 2 cents on some kind of type metal, the ingots just look too well formed .
And the rest of the story........

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Even though, I don't think it's zinc, here is some more info on Zinc, I did a test a couple years ago, test results in post #6

http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.ph...let-alloy.589/

[popper]

I've been doing some experiments with Zn alloy, it adds 10x compressive strength compared to Cu but it doesn't seem to add much 'hardness' in small amounts. It drops small from the mould, takes the beating at the base fine but can't take the 1:16 of a 40SW without stripping - it doesn't 'obturate' worth a darn. Cu keeps the malleability up but still need Sb to mix with the Cu for a good boolit.

[runfiverun]

Zinc doesn't work like copper.

but it surely won't hurt your barrel. [it would be a help if anything]
Zinc was a component in engine oil for years [ZDDP] and a darn good one to have in there.
the government had it removed because it would get in the catalytic converters and make them not work properly.
zinc will put down a layer on the steel that kind of looks like an alligator skin.

[earlmck]

I also got a batch of ingots from the same seller as OS OK, but mine "fingernail tested" the same as known good wheelweight metal. Today I emptied out the old pot and melted a batch of this new stuff. It melted at the pot setting I expect for wheelweights and cast just fine. I made a big pile of boolits using my 280 WFN .44 mold from LBT.

I had a few remaining that were cast many years ago from wheelweights I got for .05/lb in Nevada, clear back in the good old days before there was such a thing as a zinc wheelweight. These are lubed with LBT blue lube, and when I weighed 3 of them on the electronic scale they totalled 841 grains. Then I weighed 3 of the new bullets which haven't been lubed yet and they weighed 839 grains. I consider that identical and never would have guessed that they would be that close when comparing wheelweight metal from 30 years ago to wheelweight metal of today.

My ingots are cast up from beautiful clean wheelweight material. If OS OK ended up with Linotype by mistake I am envious, though certainly not disappointed. I am very happy with these ingots and will buy more if our friend produces another batch.

[OS OK]

I put exactly 5 lbs. of ingots in the pot and it all slumped into a pool of liquid at 575*F. and this picture below is all the dross that came off the 5 lbs. Under the dross was a mirror of silver.

Attachment 194572
This is the first two pours from a 6 gang Lee .452 SWC TL @ 610*F.

Attachment 194573
I followed up with a Lee 6 gang .358 158g. RNF, an old Ideal 323378 243g. and a .457 Lee 405g. RNF. They all weighed the same as I get from my WW's. (that is + or - 2 grains) but that spread is pretty common, nothing to note about weight.
You can see that they all hammered flat without any brittleness, just malleable metal.

Gee...now I'm having some doubts about this Pb having Zn in it...especially after seeing the minuscule amount of dross in the first picture.

Attachment 194574
Then came the BHN test of the fresh casts...I could see that something was amiss...those dimples looked strangely familiar in size.
When I measured them and went to the chart to correlate the dimple diameter with their hardness...hmmm...what did I find?
11.8, 11.0, 11.0, 11.0 BHN...those numbers line up with the lineup in the picture. I fully expect to see them jump between 1 and 2 points in hardness as they age over 48 hours or so, that how it works.
But...all of these values go perfectly with wheel weights hardness...there is no mystery here...just like the seller said..."those are COWW."

This is the question that leaves me dumfounded..."Why do the ingots (24 samples) test so dang hard?" This I have never seen before.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

when I melt and clean/flux WW or scrap lead alloy and pour into ingots, I will set the hot ingot mold (with still molten metal in it) on a old bath towel that's well soaked with water, and I will get a Big Gush of steam...I re-wet the towel everytime. Maybe that is like water quenching boolits? maybe that is what the seller does?

I don't measure ingots, I have my reasons and I don't feel the need to go into a whole soliloquy as to why...mostly, I don't believe you can get good numbers in comparison with measuring the boolits you intend to shoot.

[OS OK]

I've been sitting here all afternoon wondering about this. Perhaps he pours his ingot tray then sets it out on the frozen ground or in the snow...gee, I'm perplexed...yesterday I thought I was doing something wrong with the Lee BHN tool so I went out and read the directions again...I dunnoh, I'm baffled.

I havent had anything like this happen before...I do measure all my homegrown ingots so I can stamp them. One will get the BHN number and a simple number/letter combination that all of the batch gets stamped with for future ID. In the future I can look at a glance to see what I have to blend together and what quantity is there too. I only have about 750 lbs. in stock so this system is manageable.
I actually use Bumpo's calculator and get very close results, a few times I've hit it on the button. Time will add to hardness from the time ingots are made but it only adds 1 to 2 points then after a year it will drop back a point. We can only be close, but...close with our Pb is fine, especially if you PC your cast.
The other thing is that the BHN doesn't tell us anything specific about Pb content...we can assume about content if we know the origin of the Pb.
It's not an exact science but you can look into any of my barrels and will not find lead. So...as they say around here...it works for me.

[runfiverun]

the seller probably got his pans hot and put them down on some wet rags.

[Grmps]

+1 on possibly quenching the pan to increase production rate like speed casting.

[Forrest r]

Don't know about the seller but I quench the ingots all the time. Doing this allows me to make 100+#'s of 1# ingots from a 4-cavity ingot mold in less than 10 minutes.

[44man]

You will see zinc, looks like a galvanized rain gutter. I have some pure contaminated with it. I do not know how, just lead cable sheathing. 600° and skim removes almost all.
I hate BHN readings to see what you have, must be a million alloys with the same numbers. You chase your tail trying to match BHN.