Paper Patching 30-30

[thirtythirty]

I have recently been dabbling in paper patching for my 30/30. I've tried receipt paper, onion skin paper (don't know what weight, came in a notebook), tissue paper, and bible paper (no idea what kind that is). The onionskin and receipt paper work the best, but they don't work well. They expand the case neck to the point where the cartridge barely chambers. The onionskin paper measures out at .0015", and I think the receipt paper is a tad bit thicker. I'm wondering whether there are any thinner papers out their that I could try without resizing the bullet (pardon, Boolit), or whether resizing is my only option. Thanks for the help. Oh, I'm using a Lee 170 FN, the Boolits come out at about .3095".

[wmitty]

docone 31 has posted about either no sizing or minimal sizing of the boolit used for paperpatching and having success. You might search some of his posts. I made up a .303" die from a .285" Lee pushthru which works pretty well. What rifle and what groove diameter are you working with?

[OverMax]

Just a suggestion.
There are allot of prior threads here you may want to check out that are very informative concerning the 30-30s patching. Just about every novice paper patcher I've encountered has done exactly as you have OP. {searching for} including myself. To shorten your search I'm enclosing a link that will resolve which paper is appropriate to use for paper patching cast boolits.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...patching-paper

[Old Coot]

It has been said a lot, but it is still accurate: "Read the Stickies at the beginning of this Forum. They will give you a head start and you won't have to repeat everybody else's mistakes to find what works."
Information is power.

[oldblinddog]

http://www.staples.com/Staples-Green...product_177113

[thirtythirty]

What rifle and what groove diameter are you working with?

A marlin 336 microgroove. Slugs at about .3085, the few un-pp bullets I've shot (have no decent lube at the moment) haven't Keyholed or anything, so that might be a bad omen for paper patching (inasmuch as the bullets already seem to be a good size)

[OverMax]

Typically for a 30-30s use. Medium soft cast boolit having a BHN around 8-10 is reduced in size to .301 with a Lee type Push thru die or a dry Lubesizers die if you have a Lyman Star or RCBS Lubesized-2 type of press?

Then such boolit is wet wrapped >up< 2 thousands over-bore in size. {measured after the patches drying.}__.310-.311 would be a Marlins preferred patched boolit diameter.
Not to be misleading. The correct paper used is indeed important. Correct powder used is as equally or more important. As a full cartridge case of powder is desired. Only one powder that I know of has a full case ability without over-pressuring a rifles barrel or the cartridge brass. Which is a Military Surplus powder labeled WC860. (A great powder for patching either the 30-30 or 32 Special and perhaps other papered boolit cartridges)

There is a required need that a papered boolit be final seated in its brass so to barely touch its chambers barrel rifling for correct OAL. [i.e. no free bore what-so-ever is preferred.]
I don't know just what the boolits OAL measurement for a Marlin is? But for my Winchester 94 that OAL papered boolits seating is 2.589.

There are other technique's involved and those can be found & read from past threads & sticky's. As I've only typed the basics need to knows.

[thirtythirty]

Typically for a 30-30s use. Medium soft cast boolit having a BHN around 8-10 is reduced in size to .301 with a Lee type Push thru die or a dry Lubesizers die if you have a Lyman Star or RCBS Lubesized-2 type of press?

Then such boolit is wet wrapped >up< 2 thousands over-bore in size. {measured after the patches drying.}__.310-.311 would be a Marlins preferred patched boolit diameter.

Unfortunately don't have any sizing equipment yet. Can you size a Boolit from .309 to .301 or whatever in one go? How do these sizers work, do they just shave off a bit of lead? And when you get a sizing die for something like that do you have to order it special? (it doesn't look like lee lists anything that small; just .308 and .309)

[barrabruce]

Lee lists a 298 size die and you can hone that out.
I believe noe make one and buck shot.
I made my own whack a mole type sizer.
Yes you can size from 309 to 301.
I use liquid detergent as a lube to size then wash it off.
I wrap so it fits in an unsized case neck twisting in with my fingers or size the neck and use groove plus a thou or so over size pp bullets.
Start with minimum jacketed load and work up.

Clean all the copper out of your gun and lead as well before you start.

[wmitty]

Might want to check bore diameter and go a thou. larger with the boolit. The die does not shave the boolit; it reduces the diameter by squeezing the slug as it is forced thru the die. A .298" die can be lapped out to .301" or so very quickly. And a soft alloy is easily reduced by .008" in a single stage press.

[thirtythirty]

Might want to check bore diameter and go a thou. larger with the boolit. The die does not shave the boolit; it reduces the diameter by squeezing the slug as it is forced thru the die. A .298" die can be lapped out to .301" or so very quickly. And a soft alloy is easily reduced by .008" in a single stage press.

Ahhh, thanks. Yeah, I didn't like the idea of a bunch of fine lead shavings accumulating in my shop. If I'm paper patching I shouldn't need to worry about bore diameter so much though? Or is there a rule of thumb for that?

[Dan Cash]

Ahhh, thanks. Yeah, I didn't like the idea of a bunch of fine lead shavings accumulating in my shop. If I'm paper patching I shouldn't need to worry about bore diameter so much though? Or is there a rule of thumb for that?

What Over-max said. Take it for gospel.

[wmitty]

The rule of thumb is .001 or a little more over bore diameter. Pdawg's sticky gives a lot of info. The 336's sometimes have a bore larger than .301" so it might be worth checking. The other thing to consider is the nose portion of the slug needs to be bore diameter also; which may mean you need to lap the nose portion of the mould slightly.

[Harter66]

NOE makes a quartet of Lyman/NRA paper patch moulds . Mine is 301618 at 172 gr , they also make them in a .304 dia and at 212 gr in both dia.

Green bar paper for the matrix chain printers is great paper for patches .
I ran a few through my Savage 30-30 . I couldn't reach pressures high enough to get more than large confetti .

There is a multi read paper thread in the BP paper forum that is well worth reading . It answers questions about paper that I didn't know I needed to ask .

[yeahbub]

Greetings, thirtythirty! Welcome to the arcana of patching with paper. What I've found with microgroove rifling is that it's usually .0015-.002 deep, hence, your .3085 groove dimension may well have a .305 bore. If your Lee mold casts a .300 bore-ride nose, some .0015 paper will patch it to .3055-.306, which would be sufficient for an interference fit for the nose. The bands can be sized to whatever is needed, but the nose will have to be correct to chamber with the boolit seated to the intended OAL. Ideally, it should chamber with enough resistance to be felt, but still be extracted without leaving the boolit stuck in the barrel as well as having the forward driving band against the origin of the rifling. One method to obtain a correct patched nose diameter would be a two-diameter Lyman sizer die to size the nose as well as the bands. Life is simpler with a tapered throat as used in military rifles, but lever-action chambers tend not to have this feature, typically being a simple chamfer into the rifling at the end of the chamber. Good luck with your efforts and keep us posted.