Do you like 30-30 or 44 magnum.

[Rick R]

My first rifle was a Winchester 30-30 and it still resides in a place of honor in my gun cabinet. After owning several .44 Mag revolvers I bought a Marlin 1894 with the octagon barrel and it was fun to play with but I never got it to shoot to Rick Spec so it went away in a trade. Years later I found this site and read a bit about boolit fit. Now I have a standard Marlin 1894 and it's a one hole gun at 50 yards and 2" gun at 100 with peep sights. Really fun to shoot, easy to load for and shoots cast up to 270gr just fine. It and my SBH can dine out of the same box when at the range and both are happy. I think the .30-30 and .44Mag are pretty equal for game East of the Mississippi and like them both. If your heart wants a .44 rifle the 2nd Amendment says you can have one.

Unfortunately I believe my little .44 lever gun is unlucky because I never see any game when carrying it afield. Maybe I need to get it blessed by an Native American shaman or something.

[Bazoo]

I dont have any experience hunting critters larger than deer. But I have been doing some research, and have came to the same conclusion, that if a 44 magnum handgun was acceptable for moose, elk, or bear.... then... a 44 rifle or 30-30 rifle would be better. I know that many critters of all kinds have been killed with a 30-30, and bullet design and shot placement is the most important.

[TXGunNut]

Hard to beat the old thutty-thutty and I'm not a fan of the 43 Mag so I'd give the old 30WCF the nod if given a choice between those two. If you get a chance at a 32 WS or a 35 Rem don't push them out of the way to get to a 30-30.

[Drm50]

Well, I got them all. I have never killed a deer with a 44 mg rifle, but I have killed quite a few with 44 mag revolver both old SBH & 29s. Have a nice 94/44mg Marlin. In the ruff country of
SE Ohio most shots are less than 100yds. The Marlin carbine will kill one as dead as the pistols.
just never carry it that much. I'm shooting a Ruger 375win as my main deer piece. When I hunt
out of state where it's legal ( deer) I mostly use a 30/30 Marlin or 35 Rem m14. If I had my choice between 44 & 30/30, I would go with 30/30 hands down. When carrying a CF rifle I always
carry a K22 S&W revolver. I ain't fighting Indians. If you get the chance to go for moose or elk
you should look into a better calibre for the purpose. Without getting to technical a good 308 or
30/06 would make a versatile big game rifle for most game. 45/70s are nice rifles but I'd rather
have a HV rifle for the bigger game. If you are like me the opportunities don't come often and
I would want to give myself all the edge I could get. I like to match the gun/calibre to the type
of cover I'm hunting. I have a lot of guns, some are better for certain jobs than others. I'm not
out to proove I can shoot a deer with X, when Y will do a better job. I've lost count how many
deer I've shot with 30/30.Attachment 194701Attachment 194701Attachment 194702

[OlDeuce]

My first deer gun was a $15.00 SRC 25-35 my Dad got me ! when I starting working I picked up a $25 30-30 ! even though the shots were close.The
30-30 always seemed to do a better job! Never had a deer run away!!! I always felt good packing my 1984 Winchester carbine!!! they are Good!!

Ol Deuce

[Tenbender]

This is off subject but I want nothing to do with 44 cal or 25 cal anything. I have had bad luck with both. Sorry if I pissed in your Wheeties .

[OverMax]

30-30 for rifle. 44 mag for pistol. Vice versa just doesn't appeal to me.

[GhostHawk]

I like both actually. I do prefer my .44 mag in .444 marlin brass. It will do all the .44 mag will plus some. Can load from mild to wild, heavy to light. Very flexible and will do it with a wide variety of powders because room is not a problem.

On the .30-30 side, I have a pair of Win 94's, and I am wishing I'd picked up a handi rifle in this caliber. First off being a rimmed cartridge it seems like it is made for the single shot. Don't ask me why, just seemed like Rimmed Cartridges and Handi rifles were made for each other.

One 94 is the newer AE, with the safety. The other one is a WWII era that is likely to get bored out to .35-.30-30 this year. Looks good on the outside but has a tapered bore, a tight spot under the rear sight, and 10 shots at 25 yards all but one missed the paper.

The one thing I noticed no one else that I saw suggested was a BFR in .30-30 for pistol. With the Lee 90 grain .314 TC boolit sized down to .310 or so over 4.5 grains of Red Dot you would have a light load for the pistol, suitable for small game in either with minimal report and recoil. In my Win 94 AE sighted at 100 puts this load right on target at 25. Which to my notion would be pretty handy.

And the TC boolit makes it very easy to spot for telling your loads apart.

[longbow]

Let's back up the bus a bit. There was some mention of dual purpose rifle and handgun round but as has been mentioned, .44 mag rifle SAAMI spec is 0.431" groove diameter so it is possible that you will not get good accuracy from both rifle and handgun with the same boolit diameter or same load for that matter. Of course they will function but just may not be top performers.

My Marlin like 0.434" boolits and certainly nothing under 0.432" which tends to be pretty large for handgun.

There is also a pretty limited OAL for the Marlin and you are pretty much restricted to factory OAL unless you modify the cartridge stop.

Just a couple of things to consider.

While the .30-30 is a fine cartridge and has longer range potential than the .44 I prefer the .44. I have moulds from round ball and 165 gr. Accurate Mold for light to Mihecs 434640 which casts at 270 gr. solid.

For me, I have not been able to get decent long range (past 100 yard) accuracy with boolits of much over 270 grs. 300 gr. boolits are keyholing by 100 yards and that applies to cast boolits as well and "J" bullets. That is with the typical 1:38" twist.

RanchDog told me his 300 gr. stabilized all the way to 300 yards for him and I have been told that WFN style boolits of 300 grs. will also remain stable if pushed hard in 1:38" twist and while I don't doubt it can be done, I have not succeeded. 270 gr. is the heaviest boolit I have managed to get good accuracy from but that's enough for me and I really like that boolit too.

On boolit style, there's another issue with Marlins... they tend not to like SWC's. Nose length and also feeding issues due to flat nose and shoulder can be a problem in some guns. They were in mine. That's another strike against dual purpose rounds if you like SWC's in the handgun. Round nose or RNFP with moderate meplat should be fine in the rifle and they can be made to feed SWC's with some work.

Hmmmm... starting to wonder why I like my Marlin... but I do. It is fun to shoot, inexpensive to load and easy to load for. PB boolits all the way for me.

Different strokes.

Longbow

[OlDeuce]

This is off subject but I want nothing to do with 44 cal or 25 cal anything. I have had bad luck with both. Sorry if I pissed in your Wheeties .

Tenbender...............Doesn't bother me a bit!!! Different parts of the country use different guns/cals. to get the job done!!!! Sure don't need a WIN.-MAG. TO DO A LITTLE JOB!!! Ol Deuce

[rintinglen]

In my experience, the 44 mag is the luckier caliber.
I am more likely to see a deer if I am carrying my 44 than if I am carrying my 30-30. It will be 200 yards off, but at least I will see it. Deer fear the 30-30.

[Bazoo]

Seeing deer aint a problem round these parts... sept I didnt see any last season except on the last day of muzzleloader... which I missed.

[JohnH]

Why are you "limited" to 250-250gr bullets in the Marlin 94?
I wery well know it is 1:38" and that is the limiting factor but the 30-30 maxes out at 170-180gr so why is 80grains heavier bullets a limitation?

Oh and mine is a 1972 MG and shoots like a laser with cast 240grainers.
And the 20" takes 10 rounds of 44MAG for plinking

Twist rate. Bullets are stabilized by spinning them. The faster the twist for caliber the heavier the bullet you can stabilize. If a 44 caliber bullet of 300 gains weight could be made the same length as a 240 grain bullet, the 1-38 twist would stabilize it. But since the 300 grainer is longer, it requires a faster twist. Do a google search on "Greenhill Formula" You can also go to www.realguns.com they have a twist calculator and you can play with that some to get a better understanding of the problem. The 244 Remington and the 243 Winchester hit the market at about the same time. The Remington cartridge was based on the 7x57 Mauser and the Winchester on the 308 Winchester. The Remington used a 1-14 twist while the Winchester used a 1-10. The Remington would not stabilize 100 grain bullets while the Winchester would. The Winchester won out in sales, primarily because the rifle could be used as both a varmint rig and a deer rifle. With it's slower twist failing to stabilize heavier bullets of the caliber, the Remington's sales lagged. By the time Remington began making rifles with the faster twist, it was too late to change the course of consumer preference. Even though the 244 Remington was in fact a superior cartridge, producing 150-200 fps more velocity, the velocity gain was not enough to make up for the fact that people saw the cartridges as dual purpose and the Remington failed in that respect because it didn't handle heavier bullets. The 223 Remington/5.56 NATO has a similar history, being first produced with slower twist barrels then faster twists to stabilize heavier bullets becoming the norm. The exception here to the 6mm Remington/Winchester story is that the 223 was never seen as a dual purpose rifle until later in it's life and the faster twist/heavier bullet use came as a result of military experimentation/adoption, not civilian use (though the High Power shooting competitions did influence it) Early on 1 in 14 was the standard, now one will find barrels rifled at rates as slow as 1-14 (primarily varmint rifles using ~50 grain bullets) to 1-7 twists meant for bullets as heavy as 80 grains. 308 Winchester uses a 1-12 twist (some makers saddle it with 1-10 but that is a manufacturing cost decision) and typically fails to stabilize bullets weighing 200+ grains. The 300 Blackout uses a 1-7 twist and will stabilize bullets as heavy as 250 grains. Hope this helps.

[Texas by God]

This is off subject but I want nothing to do with 44 cal or 25 cal anything. I have had bad luck with both. Sorry if I pissed in your Wheeties .

I can hit a Wheatie flake at 100 yds with my wife's .250 Savage or my .25-06. Even one that's been peed on.

[Shawlerbrook]

Both are great cartridges and have their place. I own leverguns in both. In a hunting situation I'll take the 30 30, but the 44 mag. advantages are dual rifle/ pistol combo and a few more bullets in the tube. The 30 30 shines at a bit longer distances and they are usually cheaper and easier to find.

[Bazoo]

After a lot of pondering, i figure there aint really any benefit of one over the other. One of the benefits I see in 30-30 is that it will work with a fairly wide variety of rifle powders, as well as some pistol powders for lower powered loads. In a shortage.. could still keep it going unless all you could find is magnum rifle powders.

Where as the 44 only works with pistol powders out of a handgun. It could be made to work with something like IMR4198 or AA1680.

[jlchucker]

I like both 30-30 and 44 mag in leverguns. I'm also pretty fond of 35 Remington in a Marlin, and 44 special (not mag) in a Ruger blackhawk.

[OlDeuce]

This is off subject but I want nothing to do with 44 cal or 25 cal anything. I have had bad luck with both. Sorry if I pissed in your Wheeties .

I can hit a Wheatie flake at 100 yds with my wife's .250 Savage or my .25-06. Even one that's been peed on.

Tehehe I think I could do that also with my 25-35 on a Nice day

[charlie b]

These kinds of threads are fun

I would not bother with a pistol load in a rifle unless I wanted a plinker. My experience with a Marlin in .357 was not that great. If I am going to the trouble of carrying a rifle I want something a bit more potent at range.

My pick of a lever action would be simply one that shot well. I had a Win94 in .30-30 that would keep everything within 2" at 100yd. Never tried it at longer range. For any kind of deer it would do well. Elk? Bear? I'd probably take my .30-06. If I wanted a lever for those I'd go for a .35 or .38-55/.375

I've never really tried hunting med size game with a pistol. No desire to.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the reply Charlie B. Its always interesting to see what others think about such matters, hear the experiences, and learn from them. I know that many a large animal has been killed with the 30-30, and that intrigues me. I also know that the 357, and the 44 magnum has been used successfully on all north american big game, which also intrigues me.

I took my 44 deer hunting last year, and would have killed a deer with it, had I'd seen a deer one in range. I didnt even see a deer during modern gun though. My first deer was with the 30-30, and I'd very much like to get one with a handgun. Not sure that i'd want to get a moose with a handgun though.