Soft frizzen blues

[Eddie2002]

Just picked up a another rock lock pistol. It's one of the Japan imports I'm guessing from the early 70's and has a three digit serial number on the breach along with "Japan". The barrel is about 9 inches long and goes from hex to round tapered down to twin wedding bands at the muzzle which measures .68 smooth bore.
The lock has a partial crown stamped in it with a G and maybe a R or B under it along with a little scroll work along the edges. It has a walnut stock and for $65.00 I had to pick it up. It's in real nice shape and was never fired and looked like it never had a flint installed.
Well the problem is that it won't throw a spark, I've put in five or six good flints, heat treated the frizzen twice, one with oil, the second time with water but it still won't spark. Not even a small ember, nothing, notta, zero sparks with multiple flints.
Any ideas as what to do, the geometry looks fine with the lock with the flint hitting the top third of the frizzen and scraping the face but it won't throw any spark at all.
I'm getting ready to order a Silier large rifle frizzen in the raw and machine it to fit instead of trying to make the original one work which I have my doubts about.
No pictures yet, just got in from the shop.
Thanks

[Nobade]

Sounds like it might be one of those early Miroku made Sea service pistols. They never did work. Can you get your hands on some Casenit or cherry red? Or pack harden it if you have the stuff, you should be able to get it to work.

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[Eddie2002]

Nobade, I think you got a bingo on it being a Miroku pistol. I did a quick search after reading your post and found a picture of a Kentucky Miroku pistol that is the same as the one I just bought.
Can't find any cherry red and they haven't made Casenit for years so I'm just going to get a Siler large rifle frizen and do a little file work to make it fit.
Even with surface hardening the original frizen I wouldn't trust it and I've had luck modifying Siler frizens for other flint locks that had the same problem.

[Col4570]

Rough up the Frizzen face,Make a thin Spring Steel Face to fit the contours rough that up on the inner surface then Heat it Cherry Red and quench it in cold water.You now have a glass hard Steel.Clean the mating surfaces and Two part epoxy glue it together.You now have a faced frizzen that will spark like Billy Ho.A easy quick fix that will work and save you lots of work.

[waksupi]

I'm not 100% sure those were ever intended to be fired.

[Eddie2002]

Well it has a serial number and touch hole so it's made to be fired, it just has a soft frizzen which is an easy fix.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have and old Miruko flint pistol. It's a Kentucky variance. I broke down and bought a pound of Cherry Red (which is waaaay more then I will ever use) and hardened the frizzen. That and good English flints seem to help though it still isn't extremely reliable.

[Squeeze]

After seeing the above posts. Makes me wonder if even trying to improve it is worth the effort. At best you can achieve mediocrity. Seems to me like another case of trying to polish a turd.

[Eddie2002]

Don't think this pistol is a turd, here are some pictures
All the inletting is tight and the barrel is pinned in the front. Half the fun with something like this is making it right.
To get a dependable spark I've found it is better to just install a better frizzen instead of spending the time screwing around with one that doesn't work and probably never will properly. Got a new frizzen coming in Monday and it only cost twenty dollars which means I've only got eighty five bucks tied up in this project so far. It will be well worth it once it's done.

[Nobade]

Possibly. Were it mine, and I got it to fire, I would be very carefully inspecting it to make sure the barrel is seamless tubing and proof fire it remotely before hand holding it.

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[swheeler]

Don't think this pistol is a turd, here are some pictures
All the inletting is tight and the barrel is pinned in the front. Half the fun with something like this is making it right.
To get a dependable spark I've found it is better to just install a better frizzen instead of spending the time screwing around with one that doesn't work and probably never will properly. Got a new frizzen coming in Monday and it only cost twenty dollars which means I've only got eighty five bucks tied up in this project so far. It will be well worth it once it's done.

Nice looking pistol, from the picture it looks like the frizzen is made of lead!!! I think a new frizzen is the way to go, let us know how it works out.

[Eddie2002]

"Were it mine, and I got it to fire, I would be very carefully inspecting it to make sure the barrel is seamless tubing and proof fire it remotely before hand holding it."
I've given the barrel a once over and checked by looking down the bore and haven't spotted any seams or machine marks. What powder charge would be a good proofing? Most of the info I've found on the early 70's Japanese imports say that the barrels are good.
Need to track down some RB's or a mold for it once I get it to spark.
It's a British Light Dragoon but had a grip similar to a Kentucky pistol with a ridge instead of being smooth and doesn't have a brass butt cap.

[mooman76]

Usually a good proof load would be 2-3 x max load. They did make good barrels but I have heard of some real early ones that were two piece but that was in the rifles. One guy I know of claimed when they pieced the barrel together the groves were turning in oposite directions. Yours looks real good and worth putting some money into fixing it up to shoot.

[Eddie2002]

I deleted that last post, must of tossed the .62 caliber barrel.

Got the frizzen in today, installed it and got a good spark. Looks like I've got a shooter. Next I need to track down some .68 caliber round ball.

Here are some pictures of the frizzen installation. It went pretty straight forward