Unsafe Load Data?

[muskeg13]

While I've loaded metallic cartridges for over 30 years, I'm new to shotgun reloading and need advice. I recently decided to begin casting and loading slugs, specifically the Lyman 525 gr (1 1/4 oz) sabot "pellet." When I bought initial supplies locally, the Lyman #5 Shotgun Manual wasn't available, so I got a 12 gauge "Load Book" which claims to include data from all powder manufacturers and some loading manuals, including data for the Lyman slug. "Load Book" offers caliber specific load data for a number of popular cartridges.

I loaded 30 rounds using Federal, WW and Remington cases with Hodgdon Universal Clays. I immediately had problems crimping the loads. They seemed too long, so I switched to a shorter wad. Fortunately, the weather was bad, so I didn't shoot. I the mean time, I'd ordered a real Lyman manual, and it came in. When I compared the "real" Lyman data to so called Lyman data listed in "Load Book", there was a 7 grain difference in max loads for Universal Clays loaded in Federal Gold Medal hulls. There was also a 5 grain difference in SR 4756 data. All three of the "Load Book" loads I'd prepared significantly exceeded the maximum loads in the Lyman #5 manual. Furthermore, the Load Book data lists 10,100 psi with 36 gr of Univ Clays, while Lyman #5 says you'll get 10,400 psi with only 29 grains of the same powder!

What is going on? I see that the 12 Gauge Load Book was published in 2004, and the latest Lyman #5 was published in 2007, but a 7 grain difference seems huge, with the latest data showing more pressure with 7 grains less powder. I'm not going to use the Load Book data, but should I raise a fuss with the Load Book publishers and Sportsman's Warehouse where I bought this questionable loading manual?

[bobk]

muskeg13,
This is why they emphasize EXACT load data. The construction of the wad, and in the case of slugs, the crimp (rolled or folded) make a large difference in the pressure and velocity. That is why I am soliciting data from people with better memory than me. I half-remember a 12 round ball load, but half isn't good enough, so safety comes first. This place has so many people who are more knowledgeable than me, I'm sure that someone will come up with a safe, tested alternative, even if I never find the load data I have forgotten.

Bob K

[Lumpie]

I have been loading, and shooting slugs, and buckshot for over fifty years. It is funny how time has turned a simple task, into a headache. First off you should use a powder that is designed to shoot these items. Modern powders are designed to shoot clay birds period. If you have a desire to shoot Slugs, and buck shot, then use a tried, and true approach. Fast burning powders are a no no! Buy you some Unique, or Herco powder. Use Fiber wads. The best load for a slug in a 12ga. is 21 grains of Unique 2-.200 Nitro cards, and a 3/8 filler. All these items are available. Federal even is making their Paper 12ga hulls again. If you can't find any fiber wads, just pm me and I will gladly send you some. Simple as that. Enough of the Paranoia, and Rhetoric caused by someone writing a reloading book, that don't know his A-- from a hole in the ground. Lumpie

[longbow]

Lumpie is right on!

I have numerous shotgun and slug loading manuals and find most loads very frustrating to get correct components for. All the manuals are very specific in that you cannot substitue ANY component or dangerous pressure can result. The problem is I have limited access to good selection of components and almost always wind up with a recipe requiring at least one item I can't get so have to go and buy all new hulls, wads or primers.

With the "new" fast powders just a change of wad or primer can raise or lower pressure dramatically. I have been collecting info for a while in an attempt to get cross references and have been reasonably successful. Different manuals show different recipes - maybe hull, wad and powder the same but different primer (hopefully the one I have!).

Slower powders seem less affected by things like primer and wad changes than very fast powders. I'm kinda thinking it would be nice if the old style bulk smokeless shotgun powders were still available - slow burning less finnicky and one powder does most things like BP but cleaner.

Anyway, nowadays the selection of powder and wads is intimidating and there seems to be limited info on slug loading. Without a pressure barrel you just can't go swapping components around without risking blowing up a gun. Been there, done that.

Lately I have been using Unique and Blue Dot for slug loads. I have been advised by an avid slug shooter that IMR 4756 is one of the best powders for slug loading but... unless I special order and drive 1 1/2 hours to the store I can't get it locally.

Another option is to substitute the slug for an equal weight shot load: 1 oz. slug in place of 1 oz. or maybe 1 1/8 oz. shot load. Many people do this successfully but the loads are usually not optimum as the slug has less bore friction so less pressure. As long as nothing else is changed this should be safe.

Longbow

[missionary5155]

I have been loading, and shooting slugs, and buckshot for over fifty years. It is funny how time has turned a simple task, into a headache. First off you should use a powder that is designed to shoot these items. Modern powders are designed to shoot clay birds period. If you have a desire to shoot Slugs, and buck shot, then use a tried, and true approach. Fast burning powders are a no no! Buy you some Unique, or Herco powder. Use Fiber wads. The best load for a slug in a 12ga. is 21 grains of Unique 2-.200 Nitro cards, and a 3/8 filler. All these items are available. Federal even is making their Paper 12ga hulls again. If you can't find any fiber wads, just pm me and I will gladly send you some. Simple as that. Enough of the Paranoia, and Rhetoric caused by someone writing a reloading book, that don't know his A-- from a hole in the ground. Lumpie

I agree Lumpy (Nice Fish) Hard to beat Unique for any loading task. Yea it is dirty... but maybe all that sooty stuff has a benefit as following heavy shots of Pumpking ball come sliding along. I read my origonal article about round ball loading in an old Lyman reprint and it just said "so many grains of Unique" or start with 85 grains of FFG... so off I went and been launching round ball for 20 years now... I still have the last 2 Foster slugs in the box I bought 25 years ago...