8 x 57mm - 252 grain Ideal 320378 - GC'd & PC'd - 40 grains H4831SC - "Uhh ?"

[OS OK]

I like the ideal 320378, but have only really used it for mild loads out of m1888 commission rifles. I'm a little surprised that although available from the teens thru the 1970's as a standard in the ideal/lyman catalogs, its a really hard mold to find. Only see this design show up about once a year on E-bay and only in single cavity. I very much regret not bidding on the only double cavity I ever saw several years ago.

I don't understand why the original Ideal mould was labeled 320 378, I thought it would cast .320" so when I saw it for sale I thought perhaps a perfect subject for PC fattening...but IIRC'ly casts .3245" out of IsoCore + Lyman No.2 @ a 3:1 ratio.

[pill bug]

Yeah OS OK, I don't understand that either. My older Ideal 320378 and a 320366 both cast .324" or there about also. As does a later double cavity 323366. Odd that they would call it a 320 on the early molds when really it isn't.

[OS OK]

Do you have a preference for one or the other in the 8mm?

[NYBushBro]

I don't understand why the original Ideal mould was labeled 320 378, I thought it would cast .320" so when I saw it for sale I thought perhaps a perfect subject for PC fattening...but IIRC'ly casts .3245" out of IsoCore + Lyman No.2 @ a 3:1 ratio.

It may well have been a carry-over from an original designation for the J-bore (.318") Mausers... and someone at the factory just kept the number.

[Wayne Smith]

I just (this past weekend) received an e-mail from MidSouth. They were pushing their casting stuff, and included in the list were the special order molds. They are all still available. Go to MidSouth and Special Order Molds, you should find them.

[OS OK]

It may well have been a carry-over from an original designation for the J-bore (.318") Mausers... and someone at the factory just kept the number.

Ahhh Ha! Who turned the light on in here?

[NYBushBro]

I just heard from DROMIA (a mod over at NOE mold forum) and he says that we need only TWO intrepid souls who are Mauser fans to make this GB happen.. after quite a long wait! Swede is anxious to get this one going as well.

Link: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....c,1633.15.html

[Larry Gibson]

I don't understand why the original Ideal mould was labeled 320 378, I thought it would cast .320" so when I saw it for sale I thought perhaps a perfect subject for PC fattening...but IIRC'ly casts .3245" out of IsoCore + Lyman No.2 @ a 3:1 ratio.

Probably because the "original Ideal" mould was cut for Lyman #1 alloy. "Back in the day" many Ideal moulds were cut for that alloy. With #1 alloy your 320378 would, no doubt cast .320 - .321 with #1 alloy.

Many here who got used to the Ideal moulds cut "back I the day" or with Lyman moulds cut with cherries made for #1 alloy got spoiled with the "over sized" cast bullets from those moulds when COWWs, #2 alloy or linotype was used. Now they complain about "undersized" new Lyman moulds which are cut for #2 alloy not casting .002 - .003 over nominal diameter. It's just the way it is.

Larry Gibson

[NYBushBro]

Probably because the "original Ideal" mould was cut for Lyman #1 alloy. "Back in the day" many Ideal moulds were cut for that alloy. With #1 alloy your 320378 would, no doubt cast .320 - .321 with #1 alloy.

Many here who got used to the Ideal moulds cut "back I the day" or with Lyman moulds cut with cherries made for #1 alloy got spoiled with the "over sized" cast bullets from those moulds when COWWs, #2 alloy or linotype was used. Now they complain about "undersized" new Lyman moulds which are cut for #2 alloy not casting .002 - .003 over nominal diameter. It's just the way it is.

Larry Gibson

Larry, what was the ratio of Pb:Sn:Sb in 'Lyman No. 1'? The reason I ask is that I've been contemplating how to cast a bullet 1-2 mils under spec so that PC would bring the coated/baked product 'to spec'. If Lyman No. 1 would 'shrink' .002" more, the PC would bring it back to a dimension similar to casting with WW. I'm curious...

[Larry Gibson]

Ideal/Lyman #1 alloy was/is; 80% lead, 10% tin, 7% antimony, 3% copper (% is by weight). That is referenced from Lt. Whelen's book published in 1909.

Larry Gibson

[NYBushBro]

Ideal/Lyman #1 alloy was/is; 80% lead, 10% tin, 7% antimony, 3% copper (% is by weight). That is referenced from Lt. Whelen's book published in 1909.

Larry Gibson

Thanx!

[NYBushBro]

The NOE Group Buy for this bullet is now ACTIVE (we got 10 signed up).

I talked with Swede and he will also offer a HP option for ONE cavity (ala Lyman). Might be nice to try some subsonic loads with a heavy HP (this thing weighs as much as a Colt 45 slug, but with a estimated B.C. of 0.347 (a slammer)!

[OS OK]

No thanks, I'm good to go with this one. If I were to try to get out there long range with one of those add on scope mounts and long eye relief scopes...I might want a HP version...a HP might add to more stability by moving the COG back some.
It's going to be irons for me and prolly a limit of 3oo yds...we'll see, I ain't got that far yet... ...thanks for the offer though.

charlie

PS...keep us posted either on this thread or a new one about the mould, the casts and your cartridge workup...OK?
Lotza pics too...OK?

[tomme boy]

OS, do you have any 4350 of any variety? It may get the speed and PSI up easier. But if you are looking to fill the case then stick with what you have been doing.

Oh, Any more pics of that hand guard? I have never seen one with that many hole like that.

[OS OK]

I'd like to get the speed to 2,200 FPS, just a number I pulled out of the sky. The problem, I think would be the over spinning of the cast...I'm afraid that this would exaggerate any imperfections, balance issues within the cast, make it even more inaccurate at say 300 yds. I figure 300 is all my old eyes are good for these days with the irons.
The load @ 42 grains/2,002FPS Avg./155,831RPM...is just where I want to start out and tune to a barrel node...I suspect that if I go too fast that either I won't be able to make accurate enough casts or I'll start skidding the rounds in the entry of the barrel where they torque up so quickly.
This last test came through with a clean barrel excepting a few bits of residue that cleaned with a patch and Hoppes 9...no leading.

Those holes, I drilled into the hand guard...the idea was to vent the barrel, I don't care about keeping a milsurp as issued pristine...heck I prolly took a pound of wood off the stock just sanding it thinner in the grip and comb areas. There are a series of holes on the underside of the stock too to feed fresh air to the enclosure. I figure the barrel heats like crazy trapped in the outer insulation of wood. This old girl is for shooting Pb exclusively, that's all I expect or want of her. I think I can learn a lot about casting rifle casts with this rifle...so many options to shoot through it...and have a fun time all in the same day.
A couple handloaders I shoot with have the same rifle, we like to see who can 'out-doo who' with the loads and shooting...all in fun.

[oldblinddog]

Ideal/Lyman #1 alloy was/is; 80% lead, 10% tin, 7% antimony, 3% copper (% is by weight). That is referenced from Lt. Whelen's book published in 1909.

Larry Gibson

I wonder if Rotometals would run off a batch of that? Make a good XCB alloy.

(sorry for thread drift)

[Larry Gibson]

I wonder if Rotometals would run off a batch of that? Make a good XCB alloy.

(sorry for thread drift)

Would require XCB mould cut for that alloy due to the larger shrinkage.

Larry Gibson

[oldblinddog]

My Accurate 31-160G casts about .314" with Hardball. I could probably do it...

[NYBushBro]

Ideal/Lyman #1 alloy was/is; 80% lead, 10% tin, 7% antimony, 3% copper (% is by weight). That is referenced from Lt. Whelen's book published in 1909.

Larry Gibson

Looking at those percentages, and recalling the Cu addition thread from a couple of years ago, it looks like Lyman's formula of Sn% = Sb% + Cu% was confirmed by someone in that thread.

[jrmartin1964]

I had no idea until after reading this thread that I needed one, but there is now an older SC Lyman/Ideal No.320378 making its way to my doorstep. Can't wait to give it a try in the Gew.88, and (if its not too big to fit in the throat) maybe in a Yugo-captured K98k.

Enablers. You guys are nothing but a bunch of enablers!