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Thread: Resizing the 9mm??

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Not a good idea to try the 38 ACP die, it is a straight wall case and the die is too small for the 9mm.

    What press are you using?

    I too have loaded a couple thousand 9mm with the Lee dies w/o problems. My guess is the range pick ups are the probably the problem.

    Larry Gibson

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    I used to segregate my 9mm brass into 2 groups, one for my MP40 and the other for the rest of the 9mm's. The sub gun being a blowback would expand the brass at the base....it would still chamber in the MP40 but in nothing else. A company named EGW has an undersized Lee Carbide die that will resize the brass to normal specs.
    "Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." - Ernest Hemingway

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Whitespider's Avatar
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    Yeah, you're right Larry, I just was checking .38 ACP dimensions and that wouldn't be the die to use.
    I'm using a Lee Challenger single stage press, the same press I use for all pistol/revolver cases.
    I use a RCBS cast iron press for rifle cartridges.

    I also measured one of the resized cases and the die is sizing them to minimum SAAMI specification... and I do mean minimum. The case mouth measures .373, and just ahead of the web (where the die stops) measures .385 inch. I looked at the die and it appears there isn't much of a bevel at the entry point... more like a corner. I believe I'll try polishing a more "rounded" entry point and back the die off a bit next time. The plan is to use cast boolits (no mold yet) so I certainly don't need to resize to minimum specs just to then expand the mouth back out. I'm thinking I'll modify a RCBS .38/.357 expander plug, or maybe use a Lyman M-die plug for expanding the case mouth.
    *

  4. #24
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Before resizing any range brass I've picked up, I first deprime and clean them. This so I can scrap the one's with weak tension on the primer. Next I run all range brass of 9X19 or 40 S&W through the Lee bulge buster. This sorts out the out of spec brass, most of which has been fired in guns with unsupported chambers, then on to full length sizing. I never lube brass sized in carbide dies for strait wall pistol cases. Gp

  5. #25
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    "I never lube brass sized in carbide dies for strait wall pistol cases. "

    9mm is not a straight wall case
    I get that you can avoid lube with carbide dies, just a choice people make one way or the other.
    I am pro lube on everything. Way less stress all around, but more mess.

    "Next I run all range brass of 9X19 or 40 S&W through the Lee bulge buster"

    This makes sense. Lot of not fully supported chambers out there, glock etc


  6. #26
    Boolit Master 6622729's Avatar
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    Can be a die issue but could be a oversize gun chamber issue as well. My brass does not deform as you describe. Add me to the list of Lee Carbide die users in 9mm. No lube, no issues. 9mm does take more force than any of the straight wall handgun calibers.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master

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    A couple trouble shooting hints; first measure. Any time there is a fit problem or extra force is needed to process brass, measure the offending cases with micrometers. Is the case much oversize? Second, sort the brass by headstamp. Is the problem associated with one brand of brass? Visually inspect every case before you start processing, some may be bulged from hot loads or sloppy chambers (I can't remember any "Glock smiles" on 9mm brass, but it's possible). Visually inspect your dies, but in 30 years I've not found an out of spec. die. Bad dies would be bad 100% of the time. Be methodical 'cause a "shotgun approach" is nuttin' better than a WAG...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  8. #28
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    I looked around, the Glock 9mm chamber is not at the root of the problem anymore than any other 9mm chamber

  9. #29
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    My solution to the tapered case 9 mm was a steel CH4D sizing die , its tapered !
    A little Lee case lube, mixed with alcohol and sprayed on takes care of lubing....not a deal breaker in my opinion.
    Gary
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  10. #30
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    Ive loaded 100s of thousands of pistol rounds of every caliber. Tons of 9mm and have used a few different brand die and even a Dillon square deal. Only problems ive had are a few times I ran into the "glock belly" brass. don't even know that it actually was shot in a glock. I buy nothing but once fired brass. If you cant load 9mm or any other pistol brass with carbide dies without lube theres something wrong with your dies. I load progressively and I'm not about to retumble my brass after sizing to get lube off. Before I did that id buy another set of dies. I like lee handgun dies as much as any brand but that said ive had both lee and lyman dies that weren't right out of the box. Last set of bad lees were a set for my Beowulf. Contacted lee and they sent me a new sizer within a week that worked fine. Granted there not carbide but the point is if you have to use lube to get smooth operation out of your press something isn't right. Why not fix the problem and then you can use the dies the way they were designed to be used. I guess where I differ from some is when I sit down and load pistol rounds its nothing to load a 1000 at a crack. I guess if your loading 50 or a 100 you can fart around with lubing and tumbling. Me id rather shoot then load.

  11. #31
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    I think Herb in Pa has the answer to your problem. I think some of your brass was shot in a subgun, They are notorious for expanding brass more than normal.

    eveready
    eveready

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    I use the Lee 4 die set as well for 9mm and all I use is mixed headstamp "range brass" - never had an issue with my Lee 9mm FL carbide die. What is your FL die marked/stamped? Sounds to me like either a mistake was made and the wrong FL die was put in the set or the FL die is defective. I load on a Lee 4 hole turret and it takes very little pressure on the handle to size a 9mm casing.

    As far as using a .380 ACP die for doing it - bad idea. Call Lee and send the FL die back and ask for a replacement - something "ain't right".

  13. #33
    Boolit Master 308Jeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmort View Post

    I get that you can avoid lube with carbide dies, just a choice people make one way or the other.
    I am pro lube on everything. Way less stress all around, but more mess.


    I'm in the same school.

    I use lanolin/alcohol lube on everything. The press operates much smoother, it takes all of 30 seconds to lube a few hundred cases, and 3 minutes in the tumbler with corncob to get the loaded rounds cleaned up.

  14. #34
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    you must be using a different lanolin lube then I do because it takes at least a hour in the tumbler to clean it off my brass. Add to that that tumbling live rounds can break down powder cornels and powder coatings and change the burning rate of you powder and if your using conventionaly lubed bullets your impregnating dirt and dust into your lead bullets. Kind of reminds me of a gun that needs soft lead to bump up because its out of spec. If I have a defective gun I sell it or fix it. I don't put a bandaid on it. If you are having problems sizing pistol brass with a carbide die theres something wrong that needs to be fixed or replaced.
    Quote Originally Posted by 308Jeff View Post
    I'm in the same school.

    I use lanolin/alcohol lube on everything. The press operates much smoother, it takes all of 30 seconds to lube a few hundred cases, and 3 minutes in the tumbler with corncob to get the loaded rounds cleaned up.

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I have sized a lot of 9 mm's, in both RCBS and Dillon dies with no problems. I don't remember any extra effort being required on the press handle. I've sized both with and without lube and the lube does make it easier but also adds a clean up step to your process. I would contact Lee, as it sure sounds like something ain't right.

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    "If you are having problems sizing pistol brass with a carbide die theres (sic) something wrong that needs to be fixed or replaced."

    No one mentioned having problems sizing pistol brass except the OP.
    Those are some, myself included, who mentioned that they put case lube on all brass when sizing, carbide or not. That is a choice. That you will not accept that others do it differently than you do seems to be your
    modus operandi. Why do you care what other people do??? That you can size unlubed brass with carbide dies dose not mean that you have to do it that way. Common sense would tell anyone that there will be less stress placed on the brass, dies, and press with lube. Some people choose to get postsecondary education and some do not. That is a choice. You keep making the same nonsense point. You do it your way and others will do as they see fit.

  17. #37
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    RE: CASE LUBE

    February 20th, 2017 at 8:55am
    With straightwall handgun cartridges, the primary advantages to lubing the cases are reduced effort to resize, and because of that, increased production rate. A carbide size die on a straightwall handgun cartridge has a sufficiently lowered friction coefficient that cases won't stick in the die. A little bit of lube is nice, especially if you intend to load a large quantity at one sitting.
    Bottleneck cases must be lubed, even with carbide dies. Otherwise, the case will stick.


  18. #38
    Boolit Master 308Jeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    you must be using a different lanolin lube then I do because it takes at least a hour in the tumbler to clean it off my brass. Add to that that tumbling live rounds can break down powder cornels and powder coatings and change the burning rate of you powder and if your using conventionaly lubed bullets your impregnating dirt and dust into your lead bullets. Kind of reminds me of a gun that needs soft lead to bump up because its out of spec. If I have a defective gun I sell it or fix it. I don't put a bandaid on it. If you are having problems sizing pistol brass with a carbide die theres something wrong that needs to be fixed or replaced.
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/989...nds_in_OP.html

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    Add to that that tumbling live rounds can break down powder cornels and powder coatings and change the burning rate of you powder
    This is one of those rumors that persist for some reason. All factory ammo is tumbled before it's boxed up. There was either an article or thread about this. They tumbled ammo for hundreds of hours and had high magnification, microscope, pictures of the kernels. Nothing changed after hundreds of hours of tumbling. I believe they were shot across a chrono as well. Tumbling for an hour to remove lube isn't going to change anything.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Whitespider's Avatar
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    I've done some more investigating, examining, measuring, and whatnot.
    I believe 95% of the problem was... ummm... well... operator error

    I was resizing mixed headstamps, several different headstamps. Some were range pick-ups, some were fired in my son's two pistols, some fired in his buddy's pistol, and some fired in a gun belonging to a visiting family member a couple years back. The cases with "F-C" headstamp resized noticeably easier than most others, those with "WCC" and "WIN" headstamps required more effort. The "R-P" headstamps required an effort somewhere between those, and the smattering of other headstamps varied with some requiring even more effort.

    First of all, I've never resized tapered pistol cases before so I followed the Lee instructions for setting up the die... which is basically setting the die so the shellholder makes firm contact. Now, I don't do that with any other resizing die regardless of the instruction; I usually screw the die in until it contacts the shellholder and than back it off a ½ to ¾ turn (talking strictly pistol/revolver cases here).
    So I started measuring case wall thickness using a not-very-precise method... a standard-jaw caliper... starting at the mouth and progressing down into the case. What I learned, especially on the cases requiring the most effort, the die is resizing where the case wall thickens/hardens/transitions into case web... and it's attempting to size it close to minimum SAAMI specifications. That ain't really necessary, the web was not bulged on any of the cases that I could see; it's just that the case head and web forward of the extractor groove ain't at minimum specs on most cases... and the thicker web extends further up the case wall depending on headstamp/brand/lot/etc.

    I don't have any more cases to resize at this time... but I'm bettin' backing the die off from firm contact with the shellholder (like I do with most others) will cure the problem.

    Anyway... we'll see.
    *

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