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Thread: Any Underhammer Makers?

  1. #1
    I'm A Honcho! SPRINGFIELDM141972's Avatar
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    Any Underhammer Makers?

    Does anyone have any info on anyone still producing the H&A style Underhammer Rifles(Buggy Rifle)? I have not been able to find anyone on the net that will return my emails.

    Regards,
    Everett

  2. #2
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    JeffinNZ's Avatar
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    Sorry, I forget the links but if you search on under hammer then Blue Grouse or Grass and North Pacific you should find some. I would like one long term. Dinky and good for the wife also as she is a southpaw.
    Cheers from New Zealand

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  3. #3
    Boolit Master Razor's Avatar
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    I just noticed some on GUNBROKER.....


    Razor

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    SPRINGFIELDM141972

    I don't believe anyone is still making the H&A underhammer, Blue Grouse was making them for a while but the web site has not been updated and from what I read, he is no longer producing rifles as there were problems with BATF. Something about they considered him a manufacturer and required he file all paperwork and pay taxes, etc, etc.

    Best bet for a H&A style is to look on the auctions or in gunshops.

    These folks make a Billinghurst style

    http://www.dedinski.com/en/index_en.htm

    Not sure if Pacific is still around but here is a link.

    http://www.pacificrifle.com/catalog.htm

    The underhammer is a good action for a target gun as the hammer is not right there in front of your eyes, nor is it whacking down and helping gravity bring the muzzle closer to the earth.

    I have seen a flint variety of underhammer and may have to get a copy made of it.

    Good luck.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master northmn's Avatar
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    As I am not interested in one for personal ascetic reasons I didn't read close but the AmericanLongRifle site was talking about original underhammer flinters. One problem was that they tended to burn the forearm. They are good guns and originals in flintlocks did exist. Target shooters also liked them because the nipple was screwed directly into the barrel for supposed more positive and quicker ignition. Another style used similar to that was the mule ear or side hammer. They cocked sideways instead of upwards and struck a nipple directly screwed into the barrel. An interesting variation of these is that they were used on superimposed load guns where they tried loading one charge above another and had two or three hammers. Safety problems may be obvious.

    Northmn

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Underclocked's Avatar
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    http://underhammers.com/muzzleloaderkits.htm might be worth contacting him to see if he is still selling rifles.

    Did you try Wade Ingrham wadeingrham@basinlink.com ? http://www.lx.net/wadeingrham/rifles.htm
    Last edited by Underclocked; 07-19-2008 at 05:10 PM.

  7. #7
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    blue grouse ain't no more, I got the last 50 cal. buggy rifle kit from him about two and a half years ago, it is a good shooter.

    TTC
    NRA life member (benefactor)

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    The nipple arrangement for underhammers and sidehammers, ie. the nipple screwed into the barrel...will take higher pressure than a bolster set up. It's one reason they are common on the old slug guns. That it keeps the debris out of your face is no small consideration either.

    Think about that when you torch off 150 gr of FFg under a 900 grain bullet.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master




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    It's a shame Deer Creek isn't making their kits anymore. I bought one several years ago and it shoots really good and the price was right, $239 at the time. He also had a Mowery Rifle kit as well. I'm sorry I didn't get one of those at the time for a later project. He used to make all the parts in house but as he got older he just went to selling all of the usual generic stuff and accessories. I friend of mine goes by there pretty regularly, I'll have him ask the guy who bought out all of his machinery and patterns.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I'm thinking the most likely good builder of an underhammer would be yourself.



    If you'll look closely you might appreciate the simplicity and utility of the underhammer gun in this configuration. You'll note the trigger guard is the hammer spring and the trigger directly engages the hammer. Hardly gets any easier in concept.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    I still make a few under hammers. Try to make them to use for myself and end up selling them before they are done. This is the one I just got done with. Dale Woody (gunfancy.com )put some squiggly lines on it. Hammer and trigger are from H&A stile. Caliber is 32 and the wood is some cheep stuff from gun parts corp.
    I have another brass frame in the works for a customer but have been to busy to get it finished. The frame is almost done.

    You might look here for more info. http://underhammers.blogspot.com/
    The under hammer flinter will be the next project.
    Last edited by John Taylor; 07-31-2008 at 08:59 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Mr. Taylor, that is a pretty rifle. Ever build a slug gun?
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dan View Post
    Mr. Taylor, that is a pretty rifle. Ever build a slug gun?
    Just finish a heavy slow twist for a customer but not any fast twist heavy barrels. Have made some fast twist hunting barrels. Many years ago I was making inlines from H&A shotguns and was using some fast twist barrels (1 in 22") in 54 cal. that shot good. Used a short piece of barrel, shrunk down, for a bullet sizer. This made for a mechanical fit on the rifling and the bullet didn't need to upset much to seal the bore. One of these rifle got a Caribou at 400 yards in Alaska, shot by a professional guide.
    The under hammers are a simple design but with no more castings they can take a while to build. There are these actions,http://muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.co...cart/agora.cgi Put in "under hammer" in the search. I won't build these any more after finding out the molds were stolen. They require a lot of work to make them function.
    Last edited by John Taylor; 08-03-2008 at 08:45 AM.

  14. #14
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    John- Was that "frame" cast with the curve or did you bend a hunka brass? I just passed up an H+A UH rifle at an auction but I really liked the way it hung. Any info would be appreciated.

    BTW- Love that flat side action and the spare aperture mounted on the pic above it!!!
    [COLOR="Blue"]Yes, I am cynical, contrary, opinionated and cranky. So what? Nobody much liked John Adams or Howard Hughes either.

    We need to quit waiting for someone else to protect our rights. NRA isn't going to do it for us. If you aren't emailing, calling, writing and visiting your reps, if you aren't pro-active in this fight, if you just sit in front of the TV complaining about things then you're just as guilty as the anti gun crowd. If that makes you uncomfortable GOOD! Now do something about it, get active! MAKE A STAND NOW!!! "[/COLOR]

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    I made a rifle and a shotgun out of scrap parts and the underhammer design was my own. No they are not the prettiest on the block but they go boom when I pull the trigger and the trigger pull is good. Problems were not many plans for a full stock underhammer plus I do not have a shop with all the tools for making recievers ect so I improvised. Stocks I bought from a friend he had some laying around he bought at a close out and I got them at 10 bucks a piece. I had to sand out the octagon channel round then glass bed the channels again for the round barrels to fit. Barrels I bought at Gander Mountain on a close out both for 60 dollars and they had been marked 180 dollars they were for a knight switch barrel gun that they had discontined so I bought the barrels and decided to make underhammers out of them since I figured I could not afford to buy locks for them I would make my own. The Rifle is a 54 cal fast twist 1 in 28 twist Green Mountain Barrel. The shotgun is 12 guage and has a Remington choke system in it and the choke that came with it is a turkey choke. The angle iron for the lock I know is not pretty compared to some but with the full stock I could not get the action completly into the stock with out weakening the stock so this is the best I could come up with. Yes those hammers are Ruger Single Action hammers bought at a gun show for 50 cents a piece. LOL I figure I have less than a hundred dollars into a pair of muzzle loaders.







    A gun is like a parachute: If you need one and don't have one, you won't be needing one again.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master




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    This is the one I bought 3 or 4 years ago from Deer Creek products. It is the buggy rifle, they also had 32" barrels as well but that one was on the shelf and I needed it quick. Put meat in the freezer first time out. I really like the H&As. I thought about getting a smooth bore barrel for it to hunt turkey but the trade gun bug is still chomping on my butt.

    Bob
    Last edited by Boz330; 07-06-2009 at 02:59 PM.
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207 View Post
    John- Was that "frame" cast with the curve or did you bend a hunka brass? I just passed up an H+A UH rifle at an auction but I really liked the way it hung. Any info would be appreciated.

    BTW- Love that flat side action and the spare aperture mounted on the pic above it!!!
    The brass had to be turned down from 1.375" to 1.250" just because that was the only size I could find at the time. Then it was drilled and reamed to 5/8" on one end about 3/4" deep and 9/16 diameter for about 3". The other end was turned with a lip for the stock and then drilled and tapped 1/2" course for the stock bolt. Then it was bent in a press and the cut made for the trigger and hammer. Then the holes for the hammer and trigger were drilled and tapped. A jig was made up to hold the frame on a rotary table so the sides could be cut. I tried it before without the rotary table and it took longer. It's to the point now where I need to make the 2 screws for the hammer and trigger which are casting that I traded for and probably came from deer creek. I have a few more but may need to start making them from scratch soon. On the larger frame I am using the set screws to hold the barrel. I didn't think there was enough wall thickness on the little frame to hold the screws so it got a tapered pin like the early H&A's.
    Just a note on the little 32 rear sight aperture. The post is made from pre hardened spring steel with a thread pitch of 40. A 1/2 turn will equal about 1.25" at 100 yards. The aperture can be screwed in from ether side. The thumb wheel on the side of the frame locks the post in place to keep it from turning. This is called a lolly pop sight. H&A made some with windage adjustment and I copied one but was not happy with it so will come up with something better later on.

    Dale Woody put the finishing touch on a hammer I'm using on another build.

  18. #18

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Underclocked View Post
    That's the same action that muzzle loader builders supply has for $75. As stated in an earlier post, the molds for this action were stolen from the designer so I won't do any more of them. They do take a lot of work and were designed for a barrel that is 1.5" in diameter, bench gun or chunk gun. The hole in the frame for the breach plug is as cast and requires reaming to 3/4" while keeping it true to the face. All holes need to be drilled and tapped and lots of filing. It's almost as easy to start from scratch. Picture of truing up the breach plug hole.
    Two actions, one cut down and top octagon to fit a 1&1/8" barrel.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master




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    Well My buddy stopped at Waldron, IN to ask the guy at Deer Creek about the underhammers. He was hit by a tornado an it took the roof off of his manufacturing facility and then they got 23 inches of rain before they could get any kind of protection for the equipment. The place is pretty much of a disaster. they still don't have a roof on the place. He said that he has the parts for the underhammers, but no stocks. Right now his stock duplicators are rusty as hell and they are down the list from the machine tools for clean up.
    At one time he had 28 folks working for him full time, but now it is just him and a part time guy building the stuff. He doesn't even carry those guns in his catalog anymore. I'll try to keep you informed if you are still interested when he gets things to where he can sell some kits.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

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