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Thread: What would you do? One six shooter or two five shooters?

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master
    9.3X62AL's Avatar
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    We agonize over minutae at length, sometimes. Those boot grips might work OK in my hands with a small/light snubgun, but after close to 800 rounds through the Glock 29 I believe I have found my Little Gun. Most of the commercial 180 grain loads that claim 1140 FPS from 5" barrels give about 1050 FPS from the G29. Comparitively, my old shop's carry load in 40 S&W (WWB 180 JHPs) give about 950 from a Glock 22--910 from the Glock 23--and about 860 FPS from the G27 sub-compact. I like getting 190 FPS more from each shot, with only slight weight and dimensional upticks. The Pearce magazine baseplates are a BIG help holding on to that little monster in recoil, too.

    My 2-gun rig would be the Glock 20 and 29. Spare mags for the 20 fit the 29. I do like the 10mm, very much.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  2. #42
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    We do agonize over minutiae, often more than we should. Many years ago I was wandering around the metaphorical forest in my search for a concealed carry weapon when I finally decided to land the plane. I went with the DAO snubnose revolver and didn't look back. However, had I made that decision even a few years later, I may have selected a pistol instead.

    It's important to remember that even as late as the mid 1990's, the world of small pistols was very limited. Most truly concealable pistols maxed out at .380 Auto. The smallest 9mm pistol was probably the H&K P7 or PSP and they weren't common, affordable or even all that small. You then stepped up to .45 ACP and the only thing smaller than a Commander was a Detonics or an Officers Model.

    There was a revolution of sorts in the mid 1990's and I hate to say it but, the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban that restricted magazine capacity may have at least been a catalyst to the development of small pistols. We now have small concealable pistols chambered in cartridges such as 9mm, 40 S&W, 45ACP and even 10mm !
    That Glock Model 29 that 9.3x62AL speaks of was introduced in 1997. And AL, for the record, that gun is a little monster ! You're a better man than I.

    After all of these years the DAO Snubnose revolver is still a very credible self-defense tool. I find it interesting that even in today's world populated with some excellent sub-compact pistols, there's a growing market for the snubnose revolver. The introduction of the Kimber K6S is exciting. It's a 6 round, .357 mag, DAO revolver with decent sights. Yea, it's pricey and a little heavy but it's still interesting.

    S&W offers a huge selection of J-frames.

    Colt introduced a new stainless steel revolver and rekindled the "Cobra" model name. The price needs to come down and the hammer spur would need to go before I would consider it. I don't know how long Colt is going to live but at least there's something new coming out of Hartford.

    Ruger has a line of snubnose revolvers.

    I really wish S&W could make a lightweight K-frame in 38 Special, like the old model 12. The Niteguard series was a decent try but S&W just couldn't hit the price point to make that work.

    Interesting times !!

  3. #43
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    What would you do? One six shooter or two five shooters?

    My current CCW is a Baby Glock, G33. I have a 40SW barrel and mags and just ordered a 9mm conversion barrel to complete the set. The Baby Glocks are the ONLY Compact (that I have found) that I done accidentally drop a mag (Gen4 with reversed mag release) and engaged the slide stop. But I do have high hopes for 2.0 M&P when the compacts come out. And a shout out for the Compact SA XD series.

    The Walther PPS M2 is awesome! I liked it better than the G43, and carried the G43 for awhile! But like the Shield, I just couldn't hit with it like the double stacks.

    And the Glock 30/29 is a force to be tamed! I like them! I'm more accurate with the G29 then I am with the G30.

    Price wise, the Kimber isn't that much more than a SW640 or 60 PC snubbie. Or even a Ruger SP101.
    1) Sp101 runs $540 New here.
    2) SW PC 640/60 runs $625 new.
    3) Kimber K6S is $750.
    What do you get for that $125-$210?
    And extra round, no MIM parts, and replaceable sights. Plus it's the same weight as the SW steel framed snubbies and lighter than the Ruger SP101. Thickness is just a tad (science term) thicker than the SW and thinner than the Ruger.

    I have shot a K6S. Retired Trooper let me shot his yesterday. Was a great trigger, very smooth DA. Able to stage the trigger as well. Really leaning toward it! Plus the K6S's gearing is just a beefed upped SW on the inside. The gunsmith I go to says it's built like a tank and well fitted.

    Yeah, there is no perfect carry pistol. But some are better choices than others.

    Lefty


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    Last edited by Lefty Red; 04-22-2017 at 01:15 PM.
    I'll be needing that for squirrels and such.....

  4. #44
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    Lefty, if we were playing poker I'd bet my wallet that you've already picked the Kimber .....

    Please keep us informed.

  5. #45
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    Last edited by Three-Fifty-Seven; 04-28-2020 at 12:52 PM.
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    Well I wasn't going to come right out and ask him to be a guinea pig but -- YES ! Buy the Kimber !

  7. #47
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Good thread and interesting discussion.

    For me the answer has always been a light-weight and compact gun of adequate power to carry all the time, which will not get left behind because it is a bit heavy, bulky, or inconvenient. I want low-profile, deep cover concealment and firearm(s) which can be drawn easily from concealment, instinctively pointed and fired immediately without having to manipulate a safety lever, from a reinforced IWB holster which permits one-hand reholstering. Those must-haves cannot be compromised.

    I am an old wheelgun guy and am fine with DAO in either revolver or autopistol.

    I like identical guns in pairs because if a small gun is limited by capacity, the fastest reload is a New York Reload.

    I have two Colt .38 D-frames, two J-frame .38s, two Ruger LCPs, two Sig P230s. Depending upon season, clothing and situation I might carry any pair, almost always in the same caliber, but not always the same model. The LCP is my most common summer backup, while I generally prefer the SIG as primary. In cool weather when wearing a coat I will usually carry two P230s, but a .38 revolver is year-round always in the Get Home Bag.

    I like to have a gun each accessible to strong hand and weak hand. I carry 135-grain Speer Gold Dot Short-Barrel load in .38 Special and Remington 102-grain Golden Saber Ultimate Defense in the .380. If I really need something larger than a .380 or .38 Special, I have royally screwed up and hopefully can reach the 12-ga. pump gun in the car...
    Last edited by Outpost75; 04-22-2017 at 02:52 PM.
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  8. #48
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    This is very subjective, but I shoot a lot better with the Little Monster Glock 29 than with any of the J-frame 357 Mags. The Ruger SP-101 (A GREAT WHEELGUN) is about a subjective "dead heat" for me recoil-wise with 158 grain SAAMI-level 357 loads, but full-up the Glock holds 11 rounds to the Ruger's 5.

    I don't fire the old Norma-level 10mm loads (200 grainers @ 1200 FPS) in any of the Glocks. I figure that any load capable of breaking a 1911A1 frame would likely be ungood for a polymer receiver. 10mm loads come in 3 load levels commercially--the Norma full-value mentioned above, a Federal load running a 180 grainer to 1030 FPS (just a notch above 40 Short & weak), and the most commonly-found loads that run 180 JHPs to about 1125-1150 FPS. These last loads--I call them "The 7/8 Midpointers"--are what my Glocks get fed, or a handload that closely duplicates same. In the G29, they are manageable--but surely aren't 38 wadcutters.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  9. #49
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    What would you do? One six shooter or two five shooters?

    Is it bad that I just ordered a couple of holsters for it? LOL

    I did put a 642 in layaway. At that price, I couldn't past it up. Besides, the last 642 I had I wore out from shooting so many BUG courses. My 638 is my favorite pocket pistol, but everyone needs a 442/642 as well.

    The K6s has been out for about a year and the few they some shooters here have are shooters! I think the "haters" online is just brand bashing, but then Kimber has earned some if it with the poor quality control in the Mirco and 1911 lines lately.

    I'm really hoping more companies come back out with 6 shooters. Like some of us have noted, the LCR would be a prefect platform for one. As would be the SP101.

    So the price is the only real "problem" I see with the K6s. But then when you look SW PC pistols, they are right there! A solid billet of steel and forged frames cost more than casted. They are also thinner and lighter.

    But thinking the K6s will fill a hole in my CCW rotation, replacing my single stacked 9mms. Because I can carry a wheel gun and it disappears, where a G19 sized pistol will print under a t shirt.

    Also, if no one hasn't, the Desantis Intruder/Invader is awesome for IWB carry! I prefer the leather backed Intruder over the neoprene backed Invader, but have both.

    I pick it up Monday, so either Tuesday or Monday evening should have a range report!

    Lefty


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    Last edited by Lefty Red; 04-22-2017 at 08:19 PM.
    I'll be needing that for squirrels and such.....

  10. #50
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    This may sound like a "low rent" option, but I have a Rossi 461 and love it. The 461 is a six shot .357 the same size and weight as an SP-101. Mine has a 3" tube, Pachmayr Compac Grips, and a waaayyyy better trigger pull than the SP-101 I used to have. Only paid $230.00 for it in like new condition.

    I carry my Glock 42 in an Intruder, most comfortable IWB I have ever tried.
    Last edited by FergusonTO35; 04-22-2017 at 08:22 PM.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    This is very subjective, but I shoot a lot better with the Little Monster Glock 29 than with any of the J-frame 357 Mags. The Ruger SP-101 (A GREAT WHEELGUN) is about a subjective "dead heat" for me recoil-wise with 158 grain SAAMI-level 357 loads, but full-up the Glock holds 11 rounds to the Ruger's 5.

    I don't fire the old Norma-level 10mm loads (200 grainers @ 1200 FPS) in any of the Glocks. I figure that any load capable of breaking a 1911A1 frame would likely be ungood for a polymer receiver. 10mm loads come in 3 load levels commercially--the Norma full-value mentioned above, a Federal load running a 180 grainer to 1030 FPS (just a notch above 40 Short & weak), and the most commonly-found loads that run 180 JHPs to about 1125-1150 FPS. These last loads--I call them "The 7/8 Midpointers"--are what my Glocks get fed, or a handload that closely duplicates same. In the G29, they are manageable--but surely aren't 38 wadcutters.
    I completely agree! The larger pistol gives you a larger area to disperse the recoil and muzzle rise. But the power the 10mm has is just sobering!

    But I find myself grabbing a snubbie loaded with three rounds of +P 38s, followed by two rounds of 357 Mag Golden Sabers in my 3" SP101.

    Lefty


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    I'll be needing that for squirrels and such.....

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    I don't fire the old Norma-level 10mm loads (200 grainers @ 1200 FPS) in any of the Glocks. I figure that any load capable of breaking a 1911A1 frame would likely be ungood for a polymer receiver. 10mm loads come in 3 load levels commercially--the Norma full-value mentioned above, a Federal load running a 180 grainer to 1030 FPS (just a notch above 40 Short & weak), and the most commonly-found loads that run 180 JHPs to about 1125-1150 FPS. These last loads--I call them "The 7/8 Midpointers"--are what my Glocks get fed, or a handload that closely duplicates same. In the G29, they are manageable--but surely aren't 38 wadcutters.


    "Go big... or go home..."

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty Red View Post
    Is it bad that I just ordered a couple of holsters for it? LOL

    I did put a 642 in layaway. At that price, I couldn't past it up. Besides, the last 642 I had I wore out from shooting so many BUG courses. My 638 is my favorite pocket pistol, but everyone needs a 442/642 as well.

    The K6s has been out for about a year and the few they some shooters here have are shooters! I think the "haters" online is just brand bashing, but then Kimber has earned some if it with the poor quality control in the Mirco and 1911 lines lately.

    I'm really hoping more companies come back out with 6 shooters. Like some of us have noted, the LCR would be a prefect platform for one. As would be the SP101.

    So the price is the only real "problem" I see with the K6s. But then when you look SW PC pistols, they are right there! A solid billet of steel and forged frames cost more than casted. They are also thinner and lighter.

    But thinking the K6s will fill a hole in my CCW rotation, replacing my single stacked 9mms. Because I can carry a wheel gun and it disappears, where a G19 sized pistol will print under a t shirt.

    Also, if no one hasn't, the Desantis Intruder/Invader is awesome for IWB carry! I prefer the leather backed Intruder over the neoprene backed Invader, but have both.

    I pick it up Monday, so either Tuesday or Monday evening should have a range report!

    Lefty


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sounds like a winner.

  14. #54
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    Where do you guys live that you can CC with more than one pistol? Or is it just NM that is backwards and restricts it to one weapon?

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    I can't shoot most 5-shot wheelguns very well, owing to their little bitty grips. Grip sizes large enough to fit my hands get into the size range of I-frame Colt or K/L-frame S&W......so those get the call. Autopistols have advantages in flatness for concealment--ammo capacity--and refill ease. I want it all--including ammo strength. S&W 686 x 4" or Glock 20/Glock 29.
    At last someone thinking outside the box. I can carry a Glock 22 easily and have more firepower than two snubbies.
    Don Verna


  16. #56
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	193894A pair and a spare is never a bad thing. I have four others not shown. If I only carry one,it is a Colt. If I go for two, the Smiths get the nod. Were I younger and poorer again, I'd likely see about a Taurus 85. Taurus has the reputation that IME Ruger deserves, but the Model 85's I have seen and shot have all been at least decent, if somewhat rough.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  17. #57
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    A carry revolvers is a compromise any way you slice it. It must combine light enough weight to carry, but heavy enough to shoot well. It must also combine short enough to carry, but long enough to see the sights and put the round on target. It must also be short enough to use in close spaces like arms length or in a vehicle.

    I have tried several way of reaching this magic combination and some have worked fairly well. Still l am looking for a better choice. To this end, on the way as I type this is a Smith & Wesson 64 (no dash) with a 2" barrel and a round butt. I will ditch the factory wood grips and replace them with a nice set of similar but thinner grips made original Westinghouse micarta and a Tyler T-grip. I have some hopes this will be my nirvana for revolver carry guns. It will be loaded with full charge wadcutters (148 gr WC/3.5/BE) and my reload will be some +P 125 HP Nyclads I have around the house.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  18. #58
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    I made good use of a S&W Model 10 x 2" for the last years of my shop's adherence to the 38 Special/revolver system. It was a good back-up arm to the issued S&W Model 64 x 4"--it could be fed from the same speed-loaders, and I shot the snubgun very well. Pachmayr Compac grips fit my hand nicely. Even better would be a S&W Model 13 or 65 x 3"--I had use of one of these on loan by FBI for a few months, and I REALLY liked the caliber and the platform size and weight. The Ruger SP-101 x 357 x 3-1/8" is almost as good--a bit lighter, and one round less. That Model 13 really called to me.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  19. #59
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    I made good use of a S&W Model 10 x 2" for the last years of my shop's adherence to the 38 Special/revolver system. It was a good back-up arm to the issued S&W Model 64 x 4"--it could be fed from the same speed-loaders, and I shot the snubgun very well. Pachmayr Compac grips fit my hand nicely. Even better would be a S&W Model 13 or 65 x 3"--I had use of one of these on loan by FBI for a few months, and I REALLY liked the caliber and the platform size and weight. The Ruger SP-101 x 357 x 3-1/8" is almost as good--a bit lighter, and one round less. That Model 13 really called to me.
    I had a 3" Model 65 (SS version of the Model 13). It was a great handgun. I lost it in the Great D-Vorce of 94. I was looking to replace it, without any luck, when I ran across the 2" Model 64 above.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  20. #60
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    Thoughts and limited range report on the K6S is in a new thread!

    Lefty


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    I'll be needing that for squirrels and such.....

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